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November 4, 2005
The Failure of Metrotech, Eminent Domain and All
In the latest issue of urban-planning mag City Journal, writer Nicole Gelinas examines the role of eminent domain in the creation and destruction of cities. In the process, she looks back on the failed experiment known as Metrotech:
Nearly two decades ago, Gotham decided to build a walled camp in the middle of a lower-class area of Brooklyn to lock white-collar jobs in. This project would accomplish two goals, pols thought. In addition to keeping jobs in New York, Metrotech would spark further development in a slummy neighborhood that never had grown on its own, despite its proximity to lower Manhattan. City and state officials used eminent domain to displace 250 owners and tenants so that developer Bruce Ratner could build the suburban-style office campus.
Metrotech tenants have received about $270 million in state and city subsidies (of which more than $200 million went to JPMorgan Chase). But Metrotech hasn’t “kept” the nation’s financial-services jobs in New York...Nor has Metrotech, completely cut off from the surrounding streetscape, encouraged the growth of an unsubsidized business community in its neighborhood. Metrotech is what it was when it opened: a suburban-style office campus carved out of inner-city downtown Brooklyn.
We actually don't know that much about Metrotech--does everyone agree that it is an unmitigated disaster?
Taking Away Your Property for What? [City Journal]
4 Metrotech Center Photo [Scott Murphy]
Comments
disaster is a bit harsh...having a large number of well-paid white collar jobs in downtown brooklyn has to help in other ways e.g. some of those people will want to live or spend $$ in the borough..
I don't know what was there before, but if it was like the rest of downtown, I can't see how it was much of a loss.
Fact or urban legand I heard once: that metrotech had the largest concentration of security guards in NYC when it opened.. given people's misperceptions of Brooklyn plus that it houses SIAC (the building with the 24hr police presence), I can believe it.
Posted by: OE at November 4, 2005 9:08 AM
I was one of the first workers in Metrotech when it opened because I was part of a technology planning team for one of the corp tenants. I watched the buildings go up one by one.
IMO, Metrotech is really cool. It's not like there was much there to displace. Perhaps the disparager is measuring its success against expectations. But, I certainly would not see it as a failure. I has brought lots of high-paying white-collar jobs to Brooklyn and will probably form the anchor of future development in the area.
Posted by: Miguel at November 4, 2005 9:16 AM
without reading the article, and it may be good I have to say that Nicole Gelinas may be the worst overall columnist in NYC(steve dunleavy not withstanding) . who cares about this ? 27 year old conservative rants and idiotic opinions in the Post. she would be better off getting a job as an aide for scooter libby.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 9:17 AM
Pre-Metrotech, the neighborhood included the Myrtle Avenue elevated subway line, and lots of small mom & pop type stores on Myrtle Avenue itself. On Lawrence St, there was the annex building of St. Joseph High School, plus the Parmentier Mansion on Willoughby that housed the Sisters of St. Joseph who taught at the School (I was a student there, so I remember when). Aside from these two buildings, I don't think anything of great value was lost when Metrotech was built. In fact, it probably went a long way towards cleaning up a very scruffy, gritty, dirty area of downtown.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 9:53 AM
Unmitigated disaster - hardly! It is virtually completly rented, includes the most successful Marriott Hotel in the country and as stated by OE, Metrotech has brought thousands of good jobs to Brooklyn and many of those people were Brooklynites or became Brooklynites by virtue of being exposed to an area of the city they wouldnt have ordinarily been exposed to. Yes it is too closed off - but Brooklyn during the late 80's was alot different and a campus layout was more viable at that time. However, it isnt really 'suburban style' at all, as there are virtually no parking lots, nor is it gated in anyway. It is more like a World Financial Center/WTC kinda thing ( not my ideal but far from some NJ Office complex).
As for not keeping the Financial Services industry in NYC - this is truly a dumb criticism. Metrotech still (2 decades later) retains such Firms as JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Bear Sterns, Golman Sachs and the Securities Industry Automoation Corporation. Seems like Metrotech is still delivering the promise it was built upon.
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 9:56 AM
Is it mostly back office functions of those Wall Street firms? Just curious. Never heard of any investment bankers working there...
Posted by: Brownstoner at November 4, 2005 9:58 AM
Yes mostly back-office and as such has become even more desirable as part of Biz-continuity planning after 9/11 (different power grid).
But dont let back-office fool you - we are talking about operations departments and IT departments - while maybe not multi-million dollar annual salaries - these are professional high paying/high skill jobs
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 10:03 AM
Metrotech is virtually completely rented to NYS and NYC governement agencies (including the NYPD mentioned above) at ABOVE market rents -- your tax dollars at work for Bruce Ratner. The surrounding neighborhood remains gross and totally unchanged by the addition of this isolationist wanna-be suburban office campus in its midst, as workers there arrive in the am, eat lunch in the buildings' cafeterias, then go home to the suburbs where most of them live. It's certainly not investment bankers working there, nor is it people who have decided to move to Brooklyn. Just a foretaste of what this man wants to do to the Atlantic Yards (with the help of our elected officials and the MTA).
Posted by: babs at November 4, 2005 10:08 AM
Metrotech also houses Polytechnic University which just built a dorm across the street from it. No, I don't think its a total success but at least its an attempt to put some jobs other than retail in downtown Brooklyn.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:13 AM
Brooklyn Polytech was there before Metrotech. It may have been helped out by it, but it's not there because of it.
Posted by: babs at November 4, 2005 10:20 AM
The Toys Loft building is across the street from Metrotech. Fort Greene, BAM is a couple blocks away. A new THOR equities skyscraper is planned. So there are new developments going up around Metrotech as opposed to what the writer was complaining about. Without the success of Metrotech, Bruce Ratner would not have the money to buy the Nets, and plan the Atlantic Yards development.
Posted by: djr at November 4, 2005 10:21 AM
Here's a helpful update on the Kelo case from Congress... http://tinyurl.com/blpwg What Shrub veto this bill
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:22 AM
Babs is babbling again about things she doesnt know about.Don't forget Keyspan-formerly Brooklyn Union Gas in major tenant in Metrotech also.
Suburban-style office complex - hardly. I don't think the writer knows much either.
I remember shopping on Myrtle - Sid's hardware which moved into new Metrotech on Jay st.
Also there was the Salvation Army store and such.
If Metrotech was not success we wouldn't have seen it grow and now others are wanting to put up new bldgs. If the anti-development forces weren't so provincial in outlook we would have more jobs remain here in NYC instead going to NJ.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:22 AM
I love metrotech as an auto free oasis in downtown- it makes a great little link or break for cyclists like me who want to get the bridge but don't want to be in heavy traffic the whole way. The big plaza has trees, some mediocre but friendly sculpture and lots of people in it during the weekday, but nearly empty on the weekend.
The original plan seemed to simply slow the traffic down around the plaza - with T intersections and drop off areas. However, after 9/11 when Metrotech evolved into one of the heaviest secure areas I know of, all the streets in the immediate blocks around the plaza were closed to all almost traffic. This in effect creates a moat of no-car land around the development and does more to kill the neighborhood around it then the orignal development intended.
The reason for this is a few high security tenants but I don't know many details about who they are or why.
Posted by: ameraleed at November 4, 2005 10:24 AM
Babs you truly have no idea what you are talking about. I worked there for years (and I live in Brooklyn as did many of my collegues).
Did you the huge Building with the GIANT Logo on it (I believe that would be a JP Morgan Chase logo not a DHCR one), Have you seen the huge Marriot Hotel that is now expanding - what about that large building with the energy displays in the window - did it slip your mind that it is Keyspan energy. Can you see the huge building with the Green Roof on Cadmen Plaza?- cause that is filled with Morgan Stanley.
We get it you hate Atlantic Yards and Ratner but try using facts - it might help your cause a bit.
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 10:26 AM
I work for JPMorgan Chase. There is a big initiative to move people out of downtown to Metrotech or Newport. So, it is "vibrant" so to speak. If metrotech were not there I guess everyone would be moved out of NYC to NJ so as someone mentioned it probably has kept jobs in the city.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:43 AM
I agree with David, "don't let back-office fool you". Keyspan is a major corporation and it houses some, if not all, of its corporate offices at Metrotech. It's a thriving office complex, even if it's layout doesn't please everyone. The Marriott recently finished a second building next door to the first one. A new courthouse building went up just north of it, and that's probably only the half of it. We're not talking Atlantic Yards which is another story, but don't scorn development in a downtown business district. Yes, Metrotech will not be all things to all people, but which business district is? Downtown Brooklyn was quickly going down the tubes in the 70-80s, and Metrotech has helped pull it out of the hole. I don't know how old many of you bloggers are, but I get the impression that you're not old enough to remember how unpleasant some areas of Brooklyn were about 30 years ago and how many people were fleeing the borough for Long Island, Staten Island, and New Jersey. I remember. I'm sure you don't remember when you couldn't walk down Smith Street it was so skanky and disgusting. I remember. Now you can't walk down Smith Street for all the sidewalk cafes and people strolling the streets on the weekends...now that's a real switch.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:43 AM
Trying to tie the revitalization of Smith Street to Metrotech is a real stretch.
Posted by: anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:50 AM
I'm not tying Smith Street to Metrotech by any stretch. I'm merely saying that I get the impression that many of you aren't old enough to remember how unpleasant things were in Brooklyn and how things have changed over decades.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:56 AM
Change is what happens with time. Are you old enough to remember the beautiful Brooklyn of the 30's that my grandmother always told me about? At all points in Brooklyn's history there has been some development and some decay. I think it's less beneficial when you let a huge project like Metroteach supplant the organic development that will happen eventually on its own in a city of limited space.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at November 4, 2005 11:11 AM
But I wouldnt de-link Smith Street and Metrotech either - there is of course no way to quantify it, but it is all a factor....You can BE SURE that some of the Smith St biz comes from Metrotech people going to dinner after work. Sure when Smith St restaurant scene started, it wasnt the IT guy who lives in Bay Ridge (or Deer Park), but as it got press and people heard about these great restaurants a few block away - some people went, and it helps. Just like alot of restaurants in Brooklyn Hgts were helped by Metrotech Office parties.
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 11:16 AM
Shahn - I think you are being a bit utopian
"some development and some decay"? The post-war suburban growth resulted in virtually ZERO development and decay on a scale NEVER seen in the history of cities (except in the case of war or natural disaster).
and
"supplant the organic development that will happen eventually"
Dont be so confident in "organic development", the North East is littered with cities that have not and most likely will not experience any real develoment in our lifetimes. And "organic development" generally cannot create the economies of scale to create the jobs, housing and infrestructure to support a city the size of Brooklyn.
Posted by: Annoymous at November 4, 2005 11:24 AM
Babs, can you point to any stats that verify your claim that most Metrotech employees reside in Long Island? I'd be interested in seeing them (no sarcasm here, just curious).
Posted by: Jack Krohn at November 4, 2005 11:38 AM
The real test of Metrotech will be to see if they alter the streetscape to blend it in with the coming development or if it will always be a suburban style office fortress.
I used to work at JPMorgan Chase (in Manhattan) and knew some of the people at Metrotech. Lots of them live in Brooklyn but lots live on Long Island too. A few even make the long slog from Jersey and Westchester. Like any place, people live all over.
Posted by: ex chase at November 4, 2005 11:46 AM
I think Smith Street is skanky and disgusting now. Try walking down on way to work in morning.
Overflowing litter baskets, spilled garbage on sidewalk and street and very greasy curbs from restaurants (and Met Food), flyers posted on every surface (phones, street lights) the dirty junky free newspaper paper boxes on seemingly every corner, etc.
Maybe at night time and after a few martinis from the bars it looks good.
Maybe was eerie at night years back but was much cleaner. (I've lived there 20 years).
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 11:46 AM
Anonymous 11:24 - Brooklyn isn't a city - Its a part of NYC - comprising almost 1/3 of it.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 11:49 AM
Come to think of it, you're right about the skankiness of Smith St at night...I was thinking of daytime. I totally forgot about the guy who was dead-drunk/unconscious on someone's doorstep at 8:00 am on a Sunday morning when I took my dog out for a walk. Now I walk her on Court Street. And never mind the rat problem, lest we descend into the third ring of hell and stray from the Metrotech issue if we keep up this thread!! I'm done on this one :)
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 11:55 AM
I live near MetroTech (for 20+ years)and have worked at two companies there for the last 5 years. It is virtually all back-office, with private tenants like KSE and Chase scaling back and FCR looking for more city agencies to take up the space.
While there is no doubt the area needed development, the result of a single owner managing a large section of the city is demoralizing at best. This is a failed space -- a poor example of urban planning. There is nothing there on Staurday or after 5pm. If different owners had devloped the properties there could be a variety of groundfloor retail and true public use of the commons on weekends and the evening. And the demapping of streets -- what Ratner will do on a massive scale with Atlantic Yards, makes traffic for both auto and pedestraians more of a challnge.
And do not give Metrotech credit for BAM and other developments.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 12:17 PM
People at Metrotech by and large do not venture beyond Court Street and Montague at lunch and them home. They are commuters -- not locals.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 12:19 PM
Anon 12:19,
Once again, how do you know that most Metrotech employees are not locals? Show me some proof - a study, statistics issued by the city, anything! If you're right, you're right, but prove it.
Posted by: Jack Krohn at November 4, 2005 12:33 PM
Anon @ 12:19 - Really?? Do you have a single source to back up that conclusion - didnt think so.
Anon@12:17 while I agree that it isnt as "open" as I would like, it is far from "failed space" by any legitimate economic analysis. Office towers arent built for after 5pm or weekend activity. Their success is determined by vacancy rates and price per sqft.
It is also silly to put our 2005 views on a development designed and built in late 80's and early 90's. No one was looking for a "truly public commons" in that part of Brooklyn in 1986. What was built was about as urban, open and pedestrian friendly as anyone could economically justify building during those very tough years.
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 12:37 PM
Hey Jack Krohn and all of the people touting how great Metrotech is and how it revitalized the area you couldn't be more mistaken!! They used eminent domain to evict 250 homeowners and 750 jobs that were already there. It's a billiondollar
boondoggle just like the Atlantic Yards is and paid for with our subsidized taxdollars. Try reading this great article by Matthew Schuerman from the Observer about Metrotech. http://www.citylimits.org/content/articles/articleView.cfm?articlenumber=1221
Posted by: Puca at November 4, 2005 12:45 PM
I am convinced that Metrotech deserves a lot of the credit for the upgrading and development of the surrounding areas, such as Smith Street, as well as increasing real estate values in adjacent areas such as Fort Greene and Clinton Hill. The area was a disaster before, much like the Atlantic Yards area -- a huge, underused, desolate, dangerous area in the heart of downtown Brooklyn just across the bridge from Manhattan's financial district. It may not be a perfect example of urban development, but it is far superior to what was there (or wasn't there) before.
Posted by: Park Sloper at November 4, 2005 12:53 PM
Puca - from your cited article - they replaced 750 jobs with 22,000 jobs today - seems like the type of success you could only dream about
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 1:15 PM
Hey Parksloper you are one uninformed individual. Metrotech has nothing to do with increasing real estate value in Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill. These neighborhoods grew in value as people got priced out of Manhatten, Brooklyn Heights and Boerum Hill. People decided to take a chance. It's a natural organic progression.The fact that people have invested in these communities and nutured the local businesses has helped to make them a wonderful place to live.I truly resent you calling Prospect Heights a disaster, desolate ,underused and dangerous.I guess that's why some condos in my building Newswalk(right next to the railyards) are selling for over a million dollars.Oh by the way moron Try reading this article to smarten yourself up http://www.therealdeal.net/issues/NOVEMBER_2005/1130899010.php
or look here to see all the new condo developments in Prospect heights http://www.curbed.com/archives/2005/11/03/connect_the_dots_for_prospect_heights_development_fun.php#more
Oh and by the way The Atlantic Yards is in Prospect Heights and not in the heart of Downtown Brooklyn.
Posted by: Puca at November 4, 2005 1:40 PM
I think all the development the article talks about in Prospect Hghts only goes to show that
developers know people will gladly pay big bucks to live near Ratnerville.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 1:49 PM
David, How many of those jobs are subsidized and at what price? How many of those are new jobs or just jobs taken from other parts of the city? How many of those jobs employ local people from the area? Unemployment was around 88% in the surrounding housing projects before Metrotech and is still the same 20 years later.Downtown Brooklyn has one of the highest Asthma rates in the State and now they have constant traffic gridlock on Flatbush ave. to deal with. So what good did it bring to the local community? Nothing. They used eminent domain to displace people from their homes and businesses so a billionaire like Ratner could enrich his pockets just like his proposed Atlantic Yards project.
Posted by: Puca at November 4, 2005 1:53 PM
Well considering that the unemployment rate in the city as a whole is lower today then when Metrotech was designed and built, none of the jobs were "taken" from other parts of the city. As to what good it brings the local community how can you assume all the improvements in the downtown area had nothing to do with the Metrotech development? Just like it would be ridiculous for Ratner to claim credit for all improvements in Downtown Brooklyn it is impossible for you to claim that Metrotech had no positive effect. As for subsidy - virtually all of it was in the form of tax abatements (i.e. you wont have to pay the "ordinary" tax) - which is a WHOLE lot different from giving tax money away; and ignores that tax abatements were and are used all over the country to attract biz and of course if Brooklyn is to remain competitve we would have to do the same ( or just lower the base rate)
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 2:05 PM
Just curious...how many of you are native Brooklynites? Doesn't have anything to do with the Metrotech discussion per se, just curious...
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 2:25 PM
I'm not native but lived in the borough over 1/2 my life. I would guess that not a great % of people that live in Brooklyn were born there - just as true for rest of NYC -considering that a good percent weren't even born in this country.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 2:33 PM
David , I noticed you didn't comment about the unemployment in the housing projects next to Metrotech. What happened to all the jobs promised to the local people, especially the 750 jobs that were lost to eminent domain.Do you think it's o.k. to use eminent domain to take private property from one person and give it to a private developer for his personal profit? What improvements are you exactly talking about in Downtown Brooklyn that were caused by Metrotech? For your information Brooklyn is booming.Look at all the new small restaurants and businesses that didn't recive any tax abatements to invest in our neighborhoods.Why should we give billionaire developers and businesses tax abatements? Because they make false threats to leave? Give me a break.Who are we trying to stay competetive with? Big corporations don't need incentives to come here.They know Brooklyn is the place to be.
Also, did you know that Ratner's new Atlantic Terminal was built with the help of Liberty Bonds that were supposed to be used to develop Downtown Manhatten?
Posted by: Puca at November 4, 2005 2:42 PM
I am a native Brooklynite. Born in Marine park and now living in Prospect Heights.
Posted by: Puca at November 4, 2005 2:44 PM
Puca,
Wow, some nerve criticizing David for not commenting on one of your points, as that's exactly what you did to him the other day in the thread about Letitia James's comments about how Ratner's housing and stadium should be moved to the site of St. Mary's Hospital. Maybe if you answer his question, he'll answer yours.
But I'm not counting on it. Instead, I'm sure that parts of this thread will wind up on the "No Land Grab" web site, heavily edited and permitting no input.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 2:51 PM
am convinced that Metrotech deserves a lot of the credit for the upgrading and development of the surrounding areas, such as Smith Street, as well as increasing real estate values in adjacent areas such as Fort Greene and Clinton Hill. The area was a disaster before, much like the Atlantic Yards area -- a huge, underused, desolate, dangerous area in the heart of downtown Brooklyn just across the bridge from Manhattan's financial district. It may not be a perfect example of urban development, but it is far superior to what was there (or wasn't there) before.
You must be drunk.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 2:52 PM
Born and raised in Brooklyn.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 2:54 PM
Restaurant jobs vs. Corporate jobs. hmm
You think those restaurant workers can afford to
live in Newswalk (I suppose Newswalk wouldn't have a tax abatement by any chance?)
If Atlantic Yards were going to ruin the neighborhood why are people spending $1m to live in Newswalk?
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 3:10 PM
David: Do you work for Forest City Ratner or have any relationship with FCR?
Posted by: Roz at November 4, 2005 3:16 PM
People (like me -- here for 22 years) were spending money to live in downtown Brooklyn before Metrotech -- for the same reason they were spending money to live in PH behore the Atlantic Yards announcement. Because there were buildings with space convenient to transportation at prices less than Manhattan (SOHO, Tribeca - the nabes where we would have lived). And BH was gentrified long before MetroTech by folks who were priced out of the Slope -- the ones now who are going to Sunset Park etc.
And office parks may be dead at night and weekends but this is not in the midddle of the exurbs -- this is NYC! Designing -- and managing large sections of real estate with that idea --is just wrong for NYC.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 3:29 PM
Puca - 1st I seriously doubt your statistics - but even if true - just because one housing project has high unemployement doesnt mean that a significant % of the 22,000 employees of Metrotech arent local. 2nd - I cant say that any improvements in downtown brooklyn (except the Metrotech buildings themselves) are a direct result of it being built because economics dont work that way (i.e. Patois on Smith doesnt file an "Im opening and thriving b/c of Metrotech affidavit) BUT by the same token Downtown Brooklyn and the immediate surrounding nabes have thrived in the past decade and you cant say that Metrotech had no effect or that it all would have happened anyway.
Anon 3:10PM LOVE your comment re: tax abatements at Newswalk - b/c of course Puca is getting a tax abatement to live in his/her million dollar (organically developed???) condo
Roz no I dont have any relationship with FCR
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 3:35 PM
BTW Puca what about you ducking my questions???
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 3:40 PM
BTW Puca what about you ducking my questions???
Posted by: David at November 4, 2005 3:40 PM
Puca
- living in building full of million dollar condos (of course low real-estate taxes through tax-abatement, developed by Boymelgreen (HQ in NewsWalks) - a developer striving to become the next residental Ratner)
- working for ICAP (www.icap.com) ==> the world largest interbroker dealer ==> Wall Street => do I hear bonus next?
cares for the unemployed in the projects!! How noble!!
How many jobs candidates did ICAP recently interview residing in any project in the city?
How many McDonalds and KFC need to build to fulfill the promises for local employment?
I have full understanding for your concerns about Atlantic Yards esp. if I would have the prospect of having to live next to the biggest construction site for years to come in NYC apart ground zero.
The bad way you come across (not only here - remember southsouthtslope.com?) is only shadowed by the economic success of MetroTech, and the failed architecture of MetroTech.
If you want influence the public on Atlantic Yards, better refrain from posting and hire a PR person instead.....
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 4:18 PM
Nicole Gelinas is a result-oriented idiot who doesn't care about the facts, logic, or history and simply wants to spout vitriol to support her own political agenda. She would rather have urban decay (few remember what that area was like 25-30 years ago when people literally would avoid the neighborhood for fear of their lives) instead of steady jobs, urban stablization, which now has contributed to the rennaisance of surrounding neighborhoods. Sure, Gov't needs to be cognizant of the small guy, but it is also charged with the big picture of strengthening the city for all (business, workers, etc.). If Nicole had her way, we would be in the pre-industrial age, with no roads, no corporations, and each individual would be hunting their own food.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 4:58 PM
Metrotech doesn't seem to have created many new jobs and appears to have employed only a tiny handful of low-skilled locals, but it has almost certainly prevented a number of jobs from leaving the city. Like Puca, I recommend everyone look at the City Limits article. One of the stats that really jumped out to me is that Bear Stearns spent $2 million over 10 years on a training program that netted only 50 local hires. That's $40 grand per job.
In terms of how the development is knit into the fabric of the neighborhood it belongs to, or in this case NOT knit, Metrotech looks like a textbook case of urban planning at its worst. And this is what so many people fear the proposed Atlantic Yards development. It's a huge project that divides Prospect Heights from Fort Greene, overcrowds the subway system, is likely to create traffic chaos, and leaves the city to pay for massive infrastructure improvements to schools, hospitals, streets, sewers, police, etc, etc, all while handing over extraordinary tax breaks to the developer. I've seen and applauded many radical redevelopment projects in cities like London, Hamburg, Glasgow, Newcastle, Rotterdam etc but I've never understood why Americans are so quick to embrace development for its own sake before considering factors like context, sustainability, the appropriate balance of public v private funding, community involvement etc. It's a helluva thing to observe and try to participate in. So far it doesn't make me feel good about the democratic process in this town.
Posted by: Roz at November 4, 2005 5:03 PM
BTW, the "huge building with the green roof on Cadman Plaza" pre-dates Metrotech and has nothing to do with it. It is in Brooklyn Heights, not downtown. Morgan Stanley built it and in order to be allowed to do so they did a complete renovation of the adjoining Brooklyn Business Library.
And the only "statistics" I have to back up my statement that most Metrotech workers do not live in Brooklyn comes from a friend who works there (for Keyspan) and has commented that most of the people he works with and most of the other people he knows who work there live on LI -- not surprising, since it is a LI company (successor in part to LILCO).
I also know someone who bought a loft in the Toy Factory and, while she loves her apartment, she says the neighborhood is desolate and gross because of the projects on one side and Metrotech on the other, which she describes as a scary wasteland after 5 pm.
Posted by: babs at November 4, 2005 5:06 PM
To me the answer lies with these words from the City Limits article:
"...the program ended up taking applicants from all of Brooklyn because not enough nearby residents applied who fit the criteria--high school diploma, skills proficiency at a 10th-grade level, and motivation."
Simply put, if jobs require a certain level of skill and education, or if local residents don't even bother applying in the first place, then it's not Ratner's fault that residents of the "projects" (where does that word come from?) are unemployed. This is another example of how you can't win with Ratner opponents. If jobs requiring a higher level of education are created and/or moved to an area, Ratner is slammed for failing to deliver on his promise of employing project residents; if those jobs are more in line with the educational level of these residents, then he is accused of providing "dead end" jobs. Yet another trap by Citizens Against Virtually Everything (CAVE).
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 5:14 PM
Ditto Anon at 4:18. Puca is really NIMBY now that he or she has gotten in on the ground floor of a Boymelgreen project, a private venture (with risk and reward), that has in my view contributed nicely to PH and its economic stability. A little less whining and a little more personal investment (the whiners should get together and fund a development venture fund and build some housing consistent with their vision of urban planning) would make this City a better place.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 5:14 PM
Golly some of you sound so damned provincial.
The jobs in Metrotech are mainly people from Long Island. So? NYC would be better off if company relocated there? I think you people have no concept of where city raises money for schools, police,etc. You're only interested in the bubble you live in (your cute little neighborhoods) and can't see NYC as a whole.
Provincialism.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 5:29 PM
well, since the commuter tax was abolished, the money for our schools, police, etc. isn't coming from those Long Islanders mentioned in the above post.
I'm no expert, but I'd guess that since I'm not getting the tax breaks given to major corporations and big developers, possibly I and other regular bkyln residents like me are forking over a bigger percentage of our pennies.
There is a reason that developers are among the highest $ contributors to political campaigns, and I think to ignore that kind of influence is placing a little too much trust in our elected officials.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 9:12 PM
Anon at 9:12. Why don't you consider (or at least think about) moving to Detroit or Hartford, or any of a number of cities where "big corporations" have left and taken jobs and investments and left the city to decay. Do you really think that you'd pay less taxes without corporations paying taxes and creating jobs. Not everyone is an entrepeneur, shop owner or consultant. And do you think that government can build housing for everyone without developers who are take risk and reap rewards (indeed some do fail and lose money). And how would government raise money to do all that, by raising your taxes? Printing more money?
Posted by: Anonymous at November 4, 2005 10:50 PM
Andrea Bernstein on Metrotech, Ratner and his mall on WNYC:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/51689
my favorite graph about Metrotech (subsidize the construction, subsidize the corporate tenants and fill the place with city agencies to pay full rent to the developer, awesome deal!):
One of the biggest employers here is the City of New York.-The Fire Department has its headquarters here, and so does the Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications. According to city records, the city pays 32 million dollars every year to rent office space in these buildings it helped to build. Documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission show Forest City Enterprises, the parent company of Forest City Ratner has $7.3 billion in assets and does business in 19 states and the district of Columbia. But what is its largest tenant? The City of New York.
Posted by: ratnerville at November 5, 2005 1:40 AM
for those who slamed Nicole Gelinas, did you read the article? it has a lot about eminent domain to consider.
now, if you wanta talk about hack reporters, are y'all familiar with Diane Cardwell's work?
Posted by: ratnerville at November 5, 2005 1:45 AM
While we are slamming Puca's credentials, I'd like to point out that Puca is an active member of his Community Board, which means that he goes out of his way several evenings a month, striving to representing the ENTIRE community. This is a VOLUNTEER position -- the members receive no glory and little thanks. So if you're wondering how a guy who lives in Newswalk and works on Wall St. seems to know and care about what happens outside of his little protected enclave, maybe it's just an extension of his thankless volunteer work in our community. I look at this tiresome string and wonder if any of us (present company included) can match Puca's passion and commitment, much less the time he puts in on important issues effecting Brooklyn.
Also, Puca isn't hiding behind an "anonymous" handle.
Posted by: Lumi at November 5, 2005 8:29 AM
"Also, Puca isn't hiding behind an "anonymous" handle"
No, but you are and nearly everyone else here is, too -whether your screen name is "anonymous",
"Babs", "David", or "Ratnerville" (who is actually Dan Goldstein), you're still anonymous. It's the content of the post that matters, not the name attached to it.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 5, 2005 1:40 PM
To Anon at 5:14 pm...I'm not sure whether you were serious about not knowing where the word "projects" comes from, but if you were, it's short for "housing projects." We don't bother saying the housing part anymore, it's a given.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 6, 2005 12:19 PM
I rented on Bridge St. between Willoughby and Fulton for 7 years, until last spring, when I bought a coop in Clinton Hill. I don't know what the area was like before Metrotech, but I don't think Metrotech being built has improved the Fulton Mall area much. The things I liked about Metrotech were 1) a little bit of grass to walk my dog on; 2) the BAM R&B concerts in the summer (Booker T and the MGs, Jimmy Cliff, and the Staples Family!); 3) coffee at Au Bon Pain (although it was closed on weekends); the beautiful old Bridge St. church where Frederick Douglass spoke in 1863 (now the Polytechnic U. student union). The things I didn't like were 1) the sometimes threatening security guards; 2) the vicious "bomb-sniffing" dogs after 9/11; 3) the crazy security barricades all around SIAC (sinister corporation that provides security for the NYSE) after 9/11; 4) the closure of Bridge Street between Tech Place and Tillary after 9/11. I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but Metrotech became the new home of Giuliani's vaunted "security bunker" after 9/11.
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