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January 13, 2006

More Development in Eastern Clinton Hill

empty lot
Clearing and digging work started at this vacant lot on the corner of Grand and Greene in Clinton Hill a couple of weeks ago. We've yet to hear any specifics about what's going up or who's doing it. Anyone got the 411?

Comments

Looks like it's going to be shitty. brace yourself for another Fedders job.

Posted by: clinton hillbilly at January 13, 2006 11:43 AM

I just hope the do not use the same cheap looking bricks that they did two doors down on the otherwise inoffensive new five story apartment building on Grand.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 13, 2006 11:49 AM

I'm afraid that I'm pretty certain that I had heard it was going to be the same as the "cheap looking bricks" building a block up grand.

Posted by: Mr. Minerva at January 13, 2006 11:53 AM

stoner, "eastern clinton hill"? no such neighborhood in brooklyn. why bother with another meaningless line of demarcation. "more development in clinton hill" would suffice. you provided the cross streets, that's more than enough to denote the location for the topographically challenged. no compass needed here, unless you're trying to differentiate this "part" of clinton hill from another......

Posted by: Anonymous at January 13, 2006 12:25 PM

I don't think that "eastern clinton hill" is trying to be a new neighborhood but rather refering to the eastern side of clinton hil. "Clinton Hill East" or something of this sort might be trying to coin an new neighborhood but I think adding a qualifier to a neighborhood such as "eastern" doesn't do it.

Sure people abuse this with East Williamsburg and Park Slope South but it only becomes abuse when the term is used to stretch the boundries beyond the main neighborhood which b'stoner has not tried to do.

Posted by: Ben at January 13, 2006 12:42 PM

understood. just checking mate. clinton hill is just a slither of a neighborhood anyway, no need to carve up into bits and pieces. my apologies, 'stoner man!

Posted by: Anonymous at January 13, 2006 12:55 PM

I heard it is going to be strictly residential from Eddy, the guy who runs the furniture restoration place next door on Greene.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 13, 2006 12:56 PM

Not trying to create a new nabe, don't worry!

Posted by: Brownstoner at January 13, 2006 1:40 PM

Most people consider the blocks between Classon and Bedford to be Eastern Clinton Hill, and the blocks between Washington and Classon to be Central Clinton Hill.

Posted by: veggieburger at January 13, 2006 2:06 PM

Veggie, the only people who "consider the blocks between Classon and Bedford to be Eastern Clinton Hill, and the blocks between Washington and Classon to be Central Clinton Hill" are deceptive real estate brokers and other agents of gentrication attempting to rebrand themselves and erect additional silos in once cohesive communities. CH is CH. Nothing else. As a resident and brownstone owner in CH for the greater part of 10 years, I can assure you that long time residents do not make this ridiculous distinction. East of Classon is the growing and promising community of Bedford-Stuyvesant. To the west is the growing and thriving community of Clinton Hill. Everything else is a load of camel poop. BB

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 13, 2006 2:56 PM

I said MOST people consider the blocks between Classon and Bedford to be Easter Clinton Hill. I didn't say EVERYONE considers it to be that way. Obviously, you are one of the people who disagree with that.

Posted by: veggieburger at January 13, 2006 3:33 PM

"Eastern" was meant only to be an adjective, not part of a proper name.

Posted by: Brownstoner at January 13, 2006 3:41 PM

At this point Clinton Hill extends to Nostrand in Real Estate parlance.

Posted by: clinton hillbilly at January 13, 2006 3:58 PM

Brown Bomber: neighborhood boundaries change over time, deal with it. You're an authority on a neighborhood's boundaries because you have lived there for 10 years? Give me a break.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 13, 2006 4:04 PM

Border is on classon period. (always been)
And it is pretty clear that Brownstoner use it as an ajective.
Can we move on, please

Posted by: malymis at January 13, 2006 4:47 PM

Okay, show me. Where? And please don't go back 100 hundred years to prove your point. Let's keep it to this century. You did say that this happened all the time, correct? Okay the where? And by proof I would like an offical declaration from a governmental body or agency and not some marketing brochure from Douglas Elliman. Where does it end? Okay, you win. Starting tomorrow, I'm going to call Clinton Hill Brooklyn Heights and put my house on the market for $10M!! Yahoo!! I'm rich!! Clinton Hill to Nostrand??!?! That's like trying to sell me a Great Dane and telling me it's a cat!! LOL!! Now I'm on the floor! :-)

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 13, 2006 4:56 PM

For the life of me, I will never be able to understand why people get so passionate and are willing to spend so much time debating something as trivial as where one neighborhood ends and another begins. Get a grip, people! You have way too much time on your hands.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 13, 2006 5:34 PM

I think the pickiness over neighborhood names is sometimes a pissing contest, but it also matters -- mainly when real estate agents stretch boundaries to make people think they're buying into a "better" place than they are, and hence pay more. But Bstoner's not doing that here, so nuff said.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at January 13, 2006 5:45 PM

Brown Bomber: I live in Cobble Hill. Any one who grew up in Cobble Hill didn't call it Cobble Hill, they called it South Brooklyn. That's not 100 years ago, that's a few decades ago. Before that, it was called Red Hook. Really, you need to relax a little.

The East Village was called Alphabet City 10 years ago. No one calls it that now. I could come up with dozens of examples. You lived in some place "almost ten years."? I'd say you are not an authority on a neighborhood's boundaries based on such a short time living in a neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 13, 2006 5:59 PM

They don't call the East Village Alphabet City anymore? Thanks for making me feel old. Gotta go rub some liniment on my bones.

Posted by: Late 30's at January 13, 2006 8:24 PM

Thanks Anon for the the BS examples. Still nothing official yet. I'm going to bed. Wake me up when you can find something more legitimate and credible rather than what folks "use" to call certain neighborhoods. I along with a group of friends can call Park Slope "Hokey Dokey Town" that doesn't make it the official name, dope!!!

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 13, 2006 9:37 PM

The cheap-looking bricks are on the same block, just the second building south on Grand. But this week they put some nice trim under the windows. Not even any bricks on the side of the building--just painted brick-color.

Posted by: Roberta at January 13, 2006 10:07 PM

Time to abandon this worn out thread. Too many crazies on it for my taste. Mr. Andersen, please take the time out of your busy schedule and have your head checked for loose marbles. Community Board districts and zip codes have absolutely nothing to do with the offical name of neighborhoods and rarely if ever do CB districts or zip codes comport to the respective boundaries of neighborhoods in any sensible way. I'm sorry if someone, possibly Veggie, sold you a piece of property in Bed-Stuy and told you that it was in Clinton Hill but there is no need to highjack another neighborhood. Rather, just do the best with what you have and assist BS as it attempts to grow into a thriving community. Correction Anon 4:47pm: Stoner used "eastern" as an adjective but Veggie did not. Instead, she made a proclamation that was patently false, as did Mr. Andersen, thus the debate. And the reason why people are constantly in debate over neighborhood boundaries, Anon 5:34pm, is due to the large influx of ignorant "new comers"(i.e., most of the bloggers on this blogsite) who know absolutely nothing about Brooklyn and its rich history. Isn't this forum supposed to educate people? If so, they why the shock over the discussion? BTW Anon 5:59pm, I said that I've been a home owner in CH for ten years but nothing about how long I've lived in the neighborhood. I've lived in FG/CH for over 25 years. Now that might not stand for everything but that should at least stand for something. Ok, I'm out. Peace and love folks. Have a fabulous holiday weekend! :-) BB

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 14, 2006 6:29 AM

uh, who put Brown Bomber in charge? Also, Brown Bomber, please stop with the name calling.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 14, 2006 8:18 AM

Let's see. According to HPD (a government agency), the border of Bed-Stuy reaches to Classon in some places, but to Franklin for most of a large stretch.

http://urbanology.org/BedStuy/jpg/DHPDmap.jpg

According to the Bed-Stuy development corporation, the border is strictly Classon, with some of Prospect Heights co-opted just for fun.

http://urbanology.org/BedStuy/jpg/BSRCmap.jpg

And according to Community Board 3 (a government body if not a government agency) the border is Franklin.

http://urbanology.org/BedStuy/jpg/BK_CD3.jpg

I'm not saying you haven't lived here for a long time BrownBomber, and I have no vested interest in where the border of Bed-Stuy is (my house is clearly in Clinton Hill in the landmarked Historic District), I'm just saying I define the border of Bed-Stuy the way the city does.

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at January 14, 2006 10:27 AM

Shahn,

If you look more carefully at the HPD map in the link you give, actually the border between Clinton Hill and Bed-Stuy is Classon in some places, but is mostly Bedford Ave.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 14, 2006 12:35 PM

Yeah, that seems to be what HPD says. I go with the community board lines personally. Community Board 2 does not include Bed-Stuy as one of the neighborhoods it covers, and it's delineating line is at Franklin. Community Board 3 does not include Fort Greene or Clinton Hill as one of the neighborhoods it covers, and it ends at the other side of Franklin.

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at January 14, 2006 7:44 PM

CH ends with Classon Avenue!!! Andersen, you're in BS. Give me your cross street! I gurantee you that you're in BS, which is not a negative statement. I love BS! It will develop into one of the best brownstone communities in NYC! But lose the inferiority complex mate! You're better than that!! >:-o

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 14, 2006 10:15 PM

According to the Encyclopedia of New York City,
Clinton Hill is "bounded to the north ny the BQE, to the east by Classon Ave, south by Atlantic & west by Vandelbilt." The neighborhood is named for DeWitt Clinton. This is encyclopedia is a great resource, partcularly for a site like this.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 15, 2006 9:44 AM

I love Bed-Stuy too, I spend a lot of time there because Fulton Street in Clinton Hill or Fort Greene may be coming up, but the real day-to-day shopping is farther down in Bed-Stuy. I wouldn't have a problem living in Bed-Stuy, I just believe that Franklin is the border, not Classon. My house is on Cambridge place, in the Clinton Hill Historic District, two blocks from Classon.

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at January 15, 2006 9:57 AM

Everyone pleae give up.

Brown Bomber is obviously the authority on this subject.

This is because he uses more exclamation points than anyone else and because he uses profanity when he disagrees with someone else.

Brown Bomber you win, thanks for your help on this.

Posted by: Anonymous at January 15, 2006 11:42 AM

Wow!?! That was easy. Time for the old Johnny Drama cheer - "VICTORY!!!"

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 15, 2006 2:52 PM

BrownBomber,
I think you need to stop with the insults and learn to recognize sarcasm.

BTW, I am NOT a broker. Also, just because I have a different opinion than yours does not mean that I am full of Camel poop. As you can see from this discussion, there is a whole range of opinions on this subject. Additionally, I am a man, so for future insults that you fling at me, please use the correct pronoun. Thanks

Posted by: veggieburger at January 15, 2006 3:24 PM

Brown Bomber, learn some manners

Posted by: Anonymous at January 15, 2006 6:57 PM

What ever happened to peace, love and happiness??!?!? It's MLK weekend for crying out loud. "Can't we all just get along?!?!?" LOL! :-)

Folks you're taking yourselves and the subject matter way too seriously. Throw back a few Vicodins and wash it down with some good old fashion bubbly! Mates relax.

Henceforth, I promise to use proper etiquette when posting. My sincere apologies Mr. B.

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 15, 2006 8:08 PM

For what it's worth: A friend of mine who grew up in Bay Ridge, lives in Clinton Hill, and works as a real estate appraiser, told me that there used to be a neighborhood called "Franklin" that ran from Classon to Bedford. Since that's only five blocks, the name didn't stick for very long. But since Clinton Hill had already come to be known in the public consciousness as ending at Classon, and Bedford was known to be the start of Bedford-Stuyvesant, we're left with all this silly confusion about where Clinton Hill ends. Perhaps we should just start calling that area Franklin again and be done with it.

Posted by: Amy at January 15, 2006 11:02 PM

white!

Posted by: shocka at January 16, 2006 11:06 AM

I have a book called "The Neighborhoods of Brooklyn".

The author says the southern limit of Bed-Stuy is Park Place! It's in a book! But I think, as do my neighbors, that Park Place (my street) is squarely in the core of Crown Heights.

So go figure.
"Crown Heights" contains parts of four zip codes, three community boards and three police precincts.

I doubt The City of New York maintains any official neighborhood boundary data. Some boundaries are clear and obvious. Others are vague, debatable and subject to trends and fashion.

Posted by: Hal at January 16, 2006 11:50 AM

i hate to possibly add fuel to the neighborhood-boundary fire, but has anybody ever heard of this part of the neighborhood referred to as "Adelphi"? the post office at fulton and cambridge is the Adelphi Post Office, and some maps mention it as though it was a neighborhood demarcation. does anybody know anything about this?

Posted by: Jimmy Legs at January 16, 2006 2:01 PM

Shahn Andersen and Veggie, I owe you both a public apology for my rude comments from the other day. It was totally uncalled for and counterproductive to the discussion at hand. Please accept my sincere regrets. On another note, I went through the ENTIRE blogsite over the weekend and though I disagree with some of the "inflammatory/condescending" remarks regarding "certain" members of our community, it's also abundantly clear that the vast majority of bloggers are extremely passionate about architecture and have tremendous respect for Brooklyn, its people and its historic communities. I salute you all for your efforts and for bringing such positive energy to our great borough. The best is certainly ahead!

Posted by: BrownBomber at January 16, 2006 7:55 PM

Re: Adelphi...

My grandmother grew up on Adelphi Street, probably sometime between 1913 and the 1930s. I never heard her say that she was from Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy, or whatever. She was just from Adelphi Street. I'm sure there was technically a neighborhood name, it just never seemed that important.

Less personally, I found this on the web, which explains that the whole area could have gone by "Adelphi":

"Adelphi University's roots reach back to 1863 and the founding of the Adelphi Academy, a private preparatory school located at 412 Adelphi Street, Brooklyn, New York....

"The appointment of Dr. Charles H. Levermore as the head of the Academy in 1893 was an important moment in Adelphi's history. Realizing the city of Brooklyn was without a liberal arts college, Levermore seized the opportunity to establish Adelphi College [in 1896].....

"In 1929, Adelphi moved to its present location, on 75 beautifully landscaped acres in Garden City, N.Y."

Posted by: Sloper at January 16, 2006 11:26 PM

Re: Bed-Stuy vs. Clinton Hill...

I found this description of the area's changing boundaries on the web, it's pretty funny given the tenor of the discussion here:

"Before the early 1900s, the whole area was known simply as Bedford. In the early 1900s, the part of the west was known as bedford, while the part to the east became known as Stuyvesant. In the 1920s and 1930s, a large part of central Bedford where many blacks had settled became known by the hyphenated name of Bedford-Stuyvesant. By the 1960s, this name was used not only for all of what we now know as Bedford-Stuyvesant but also for much of what we now know as Crown Heights. In 1968, the city established its system of community planning districts and defined Bedford-Stuyvesant as extending south to Eastern Parkway. In 1977, the city changed its mind and decided that the area between Atlantic Avenue and Eastern Parkway was Crown Heights, not Bedford-Stuyvesant. Even so, some community development organizations continued to define Bedford-Stuyvesant as extending to Eastern Parkway. Confused yet?"

http://www.bedstuy.org/history.php

Posted by: Sloper at January 16, 2006 11:33 PM

I can't believe I'm posting 3 times in a row, but this is kind of fascinating. If you use Mapquest to look at the area, Mapquest identifies the following locations as neighborhood centers:

Fort Greene: corner of Myrtle and Washington
Bed-Stuy: Hancock and Throop
Adelphi: Underhill, Atlantic, and Washington
Park Slope: 5th avenue & 8th Street
South Brooklyn: DeGraw and Court
Red Hook: corner of Wolcott and something I can't identify
Brooklyn Heights: Henry and Montague
Eastern Parkway: EP at Albany
Greenpoint: Bedford and Lorimer

So far as I can tell, Prospect Heights, Clinton Hill, Williamsburg, Boerum Hill, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Windsor Terrace and Sunset Park don't exist. I wonder what year the Mapquest map is from.

Anyway, Jimmy Legs, there apparently was a neighborhood named Adelphi. No other unknown names though.

Posted by: Sloper at January 17, 2006 12:17 AM

From what I can gather, the only remnant of the name Adelphi are the street and the post office, which as someone mentioned is called "Adelphi Station". I do find it strange that the post office with that name is some seven blocks from the street with that name. Shouldn't it be "Cambridge Station"?

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at January 17, 2006 8:40 AM

I lived at 153 Clinton Av. just north of Myrtle Av from 1934-1941.As a kid I played in the abandoned Pratt Mansion (which had been damaged by fire) @ Clinton,Willoughby,and Waverly Av.It was demolished to be replaced by wartime Navy housing and are now co-ops.I then moved to 110 Cambridge Pl.(previously mentioned)from 1941-1955,so I know a lot about the area and the great mansions adjoining Pratt's.I recently revisited both areas and was pleasantly surprised at the improvements.Glad to impart any knowledge that I may possess to anyone interested

Posted by: Ron Hill at January 21, 2006 1:19 AM

How did my post come to read posted by Shahn Andersen?

Posted by: Ron Hill at January 21, 2006 1:24 AM

Posted by: Ron Hill at January 23, 2006 5:56 PM

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January 13, 2006

More Development in Eastern Clinton Hill

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