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March 20, 2006

Open House Wrap-Up: Mob Scene at 152 Dean?

house house house house
We heard that the open house at 152 Dean (far left) attracted more than 50 people yesterday, certainly a bright spot among reports in recent weeks of lower foot traffic. Or maybe with the official start of Spring, the market is just preparing for its seasonal pick-up. Any other reports from the open house trenches?
Open House Picks [Brownstoner]




Posted by Brownstoner at 9:51 AM | Comments (68)
Categories: Open Houses

Comments

I can report that your basic million dollar two bedroom with study still attracts a crowd in Brooklyn Heights. When is this crash coming anyway?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 10:11 AM

I almost went to the Dean street open house just to see that rounded kitchen extension.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 10:18 AM

I thought that both of the PLG houses had great bones. But, while I am still salivating over the Rutland Road house, I was sadly disappointed by the reno work that was done on Lincoln Road.

Posted by: GardensGal at March 20, 2006 10:33 AM

No surprise on the traffic to the Dean Street house. Would also not be surprised if it finally sold for a little above the ask. With the market slowing a bit, I think the trend is now towards quality. Thus, I am predicting that the President Street [Carroll Gardens]house will languish for a few months until the heirs realize that the "fools market" of 2004-2005 is over. Above a certain dollar amount, your ordinary househunter is not interested in playing developer/contractor.

Posted by: crouchback at March 20, 2006 10:41 AM

I went to Dean Street. Man does this place need a ton of work. At least $300-400k. I really don't think they'll get 2.3 mill. I hope they do. I have a feeling that the majority of people looking were gawkers like myself. Did see one semi-famous actor getting serious with his digital camera. Backyard sucks. Not a ton of detail.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 10:54 AM

Aw, come on, can't leave us hanging like that! Let's hear the name...

Posted by: Brownstoner at March 20, 2006 11:02 AM

We walked to PLG for our first visit this weekend, just out of curiosity. A great and very interesting walk-- showed us a lot.

Both the Lincoln Road and Rutland Road houses are overpriced, IMHO. Lincoln Road-- or at least the stretch on which this house is found-- is a mess. The apt. buildings (particularly their entryways) both on Flatbush and on Lincoln just in from Flatbush are flat-out scary-looking. I live right across the street from the Gowanus Houses and they look better than these private apartments do.

Inside the Lincoln Road house was interesting, but mostly vastly disappointing. The woodwork is great fun (floors completely redone by a craftsman who modeled the marquetry after the what was left of the original)-- pocket doors, built-in cabinets w/leaded glass, some leaded glass windows, staircase redone, etc. But the current owner is a flipper and doesn't care for the house, and has simply done the basics to re-sell it. Good central heat/AC. The kitchen is awful-- some cabinets (not to my taste, either) were askew, and the floor is cheaply done (tiling barely holding together, and very sharp for bare feet if you walk around your own home that way). Back yard is a mess, and garage, too. Deck off the back porch is the same. You'd need at least-- at least-- another 80-100K to get that baby in really good working condition.

Rutland St. house was very, very charming. Nicely restored in many places, lots of light, beautifully situated on the corner and overall quite pleasant. Very easy to picture ourselves (me and hubby) living there... only thing is we don't have a car & are trying to avoid buying one as long as possible. As much as we loved that house, it's a whole different world outside of it. The block is beautiful-- truly-- but the Parkside Avenue station on the Q was unsavory. And I'm no pushover with this stuff-- I've used Hoyt/Schermerhorn regularly, and Bergen Street before it became 90% yuppies-- but you can't live in this neighborhood without a car. The Flatbush Avenue shopping is depressing-- not a good grocery store in sight.

Anyway, my very long-winded two cents.

Didn't see the Dean Street place-- would have made me positively green with envy!!

Posted by: cat at March 20, 2006 11:12 AM

I'm the poster last week who lives across the street from the CG house on President. Unfortunately, I was unable to make it back home in time for the open house and haven't checked with my neighbors yet. I'm curious to know if anyone out there visited and what you thought about it.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 11:27 AM

We're waiting for someone to email photos from inside 327 President!

Posted by: Brownstoner at March 20, 2006 11:33 AM

Hmmmm...it's hard to figure how a 25' wide south facing yard "sucks"

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 11:38 AM

I can tell you Boerum Hill is fast becoming the place for young hot Hollywood. A major movie actress just bought a place on Hoyt.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 11:41 AM

oh, come on, spill it! 'semi-famous actor'? 'major movie actress'? satisfy our deplorable star-worship tendencies!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 11:59 AM

Rutland road house was a stunner, but it felt too exposed to Bedford Avenue. That wasn't a problem on a cold Sunday, but I wouldn't want to be there in rush hour and I imagine opening the wondows for air in the summer would brng in a lot of traffic noise. Lefferts Manor is my area of choice at the moment, but not at these prices. As 11:12 points out, the area has serious drawbacks and I wouldn't feel comfortable spending that much on a house there. Maybe if the price drops by about $400,000!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:04 PM

all lies and hype (: }

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:05 PM

To anon 10:54: I went to the open house too. I thought it was a great house. Exactly the kind of house I would like. The back yard is not overly landscped, but if you have children it would be perfect to play on that lawn. You say that the house "needs" a ton of work in the tune of 400K. I don't get it. That ios very subjective. How do you define "need". The house is in move-in condition if you ask me. Along the way you could improve certain things for sure, but still I don't understand how you reach 300K to 400K...?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:10 PM

Am I the only one who thought Dean Street sort of sucked especially for the amount asking. You could get loads more detail in Clinton Hill, Prospect Heights, or Fort Greene and for much less.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:10 PM

Thanks for the wrap-up section, Brownstoner! 12:04 post, couldn't agree with you more. The Rutland road house is fantastic but at 1.6, we just can't do it. My wife pointed out how hot it would get in the summer with all those windows. Can you imagine all those air-conditioners?! So we thought central-air was the answer...Still, the nicest home we've seen yet on our search.

Posted by: west at March 20, 2006 12:13 PM

I visited the President Street house out of curiosity and have to say it was not as horrible inside as I imagined.
I bought a brownstone in the neighborhood that was in worse shape, so perhaps my judgment is skewed. Although I thought the 3 family layout was awkward, (I would make a garden rental below triplex rather then two rentals above a duplex…but that’s just me) it had great bones. Yes, it LOOKED pretty awful but I saw no terrible water damage or signs of burst pipes. The floors were solid, not sloped, (much of the parquet could be restored) and the stair was not squeaky or rickety. Despite the terrible peeling paint and plaster, walls seemed solid. The parlor floor still had some beautiful ceiling moldings and the tin ceilings through the rest of the floors looked in good shape. Yes it needs a gut, new electrical and such, but all in all, the inside was not as intimidating as I had imagined (although the outside is a bit scary looking). Then again…I am not an engineer…just comparing to other “needs work” houses I have seen with bulging ceilings and rotted floors. What really bothered me was the garden because it was a bit small, and the end buts up to apartment buildings rather then a neighbors garden. There was no sense of privacy.

I think that despite the work needed to bring the house back, it will go quickly. At the open house I met a woman who lives in Manhattan with 2 kids and a third on the way. She was practically drooling over the sheer space of the house and how lovely and convenient the block was. To her, it seemed like a smart investment and even after all the work needed, cheaper then Brooklyn Heights. I think the location of the house was really a selling point. Still seems like a lot to me…but compared to Manhattan, 1.7 mil for a 4 story house in a nice nabe must seem like a steel.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:27 PM

I guess Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:05 PM doesn't mind living in a $2.3 million frat house - sure you could live there but for that kind of money most people want quality. This places needs all new bathroom, kitchen, replastered walls etc etc etc

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:27 PM

Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams bought a house in BH. I believe the one previously owned by Nell Campbell for all of you old enough to remember the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 12:57 PM

old news

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 1:03 PM

Anon at 1:03 - yes, it is old news. However someone asked who the actor was who bought a house in BH.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 1:05 PM

Anon 12:27...I'm Anon 11:27. Thanks for your observation on the President St house. I, too, would have thought that the inside was practically a total loss given that the windows fell out ages ago and the interior was exposed to the elements for at least a year before anything was done about it. It had also been inhabited by a squatter/vandal? who was then removed and the property subsequently padlocked. I remember seeing the contents of the house being taken away about a year after the old man died...and the condition of those contents was horrendous. I couldn't imagine was the house looked like if his belongings were that bad. Anyway, I hope that it will be purchased by someone who will respect the house for what it is and make it a truly lovely family home. I look forward to seeing the photos that B'stoner mentioned at 11:33 am.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 1:32 PM

To second anon 1227: In general, I would take location over "details". The houses in Boerum Hill generally do not have that many details for a number of reasons. I think they were built around the 1850'ies, which is a good 30 years before the building boom in Park Slope, Fort Green, Park Slope and Bed Sty, so the houses seem to have less details in Boerum Hill. People seem to have gotten more money later in the century and demanded more ornate details (which I in many cases find over the top). I think the house had a lot of charm and character, including very nice proportions. I agree on the bathrooms, but the kitchen seemed great (and relatively new) to me. But again, if this is how your frat house looked, I can only say that you come from a very different background than mine...

Posted by: anon12:10 at March 20, 2006 2:43 PM

the kitchen was renovated in the 80's...a different background that you? I'm the one throwing up a red flag about the 2.3 price tag silly.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 3:42 PM

FG has plenty of streets with many houses from the 1850s, used to live in one. I think the reason there are less details in Boerum Hill is that it was built for less wealthy people originally.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 3:56 PM

poster 11:12- We use the Prospect Park subway station. If you get in the front of the train you will come out on Lincoln Road. Better feel (sans the construction) than Parkside. Fresh Direct also delivers to the nabe.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 4:19 PM

Fresh direct is OK for staples but the produce is dreadful. And sometimes you just need to run out to the store and get some good stuff. In those cases, Associated won't do. Also, as a working mother, I depend on good take out about twice a week. I just couldn't live without it. But that's me.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 4:41 PM

I find that several restaurants in the Slope deliver to Lefferts Manor. For Chinese, we use Hunan Wok; for Thai, we use Mango Thai; for gooooood pizza, we use Bene Pizza (Windsor Terrace); for sushi, there's Kiku.

Posted by: dt at March 20, 2006 5:45 PM

I work in Manhattan and just take in from there on my way home from work. Dinner is reheated in a jiffy and we're all eating one second later. I had trouble giving up good take out when I left Manhattan, and the Park Slope offererings (before 5th Ave blossomed) really didn't cut it.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 6:12 PM

Sure, there are ways to work around some of the downsides to Lefferts Manor. We could get all our groceries (tho, yes, minus the produce OR the seafood, except frozen) via FreshDirect, and our restaurant food from takeout, but then you're just living inside your house and not in your neighborhood.

We already live on a somewhat dicey street-- have never had a problem, but we believe that's only luck so far-- but by the same token we're 3/4 of a block from the F, 6 min. walk to the A/C, 8 min. walk to the 2/3/4/5, etc. And I'm at work (from apt. door to office desk) in 30 mins flat. And we've got Smith St/Court Street/Atlantic Ave within just steps, the Promenade, Atlantic Center, etc etc. So while we live on a block not entirely dissimilar in tone to some of what we saw, we're much closer to what we want and need.

I guess I'm surprised that people are willing (able?) to cough up this much $$$ for a house that is so far removed from so much. AND less convenient to trains, etc. I mean, if you're going to have to use a car to get to everything, why not scale back to, say, $1mil and go live in a different kind of fixer-upper... in Scarsdale?!? Or one of those style towns?!? You're not much farther from midtown, you know?!? Yeah, the taxes are high, but think of what you'll save being able to cook the food you bought as opposed to what you got from takeout!!

Sorry, sorry... just my inability to understand. (Besides the charm of the architecture/history of the homes, which I truly get.)

Posted by: cat at March 20, 2006 6:19 PM

I agree that Dean Street had way too many problems for the price. Ugly, slanting staircases, very plain bathrooms, unattractive and tiny deck. Kitchen was nice, though not amazing. Rental apartment was the best part, though I heard they were only getting $1,100 for it, which is insane if true. If you looked at the back of the house from the garden, the exterior of the kitchen extension looked totally unfinished, and each floor had a different brick facade, making the entire back exterior look very unattractive. Bottom line is the place was massive (in my opinion, way too big for a small family), had a few nice rooms, but overall was a huge disappointment considering the price. No denying it was in move-in condition, but is that all $2.3 gets you in Boerum Hill?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 6:47 PM

I use Urban Organic (urbanorganic.com), get it delivered every thursday in Willburg. You choose the type of produce you want in your box (they have several categories) and then they add other veggies and fruit that are especially in season. The stuff is delicious. fresh as greenmarket produce. I get the $35 a week box, which could easily feed a couple for a week.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 6:48 PM

also what you dont get is that Lefferts is a real neighborhood with great neighbors. The Q or B train from Prospect Park is 20 minutes to midtown (takes me 35mins door to door Times Square). Lefferts is not "out there". You must be a Manhattan transplant just getting used to the peoples republic of brooklyn. Your first post was pretty insulting to those in Lefferts

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 6:50 PM

I didn't feel insulted by the poster's Lefferts comments, but what the poster seems to not get is that there are many options for food etc..., and I was simply offering up some of our methods of food buying. Most people in Brooklyn that I know have a car, and there are plenty of great shopping options within a few minutes of Lefferts. Moving to Scarsdale requires a car too, you know. We love our neighborhood, not just our house. Kids play outside, there are great dinner parties happening all the time, and the population that lives here In Lefferts Manor is creative and interesting. Nothing against the burbs, but we tried that route and came screaming back to the city! So I think I know better than most that there is a different style of living (and people) living here than you will find outside the city.

Posted by: dt at March 20, 2006 7:07 PM

And I'm sure my posting was pretty insulting to the people on my block, too. I'll check to make sure my neighbors haven't barricaded the door to prevent my return home.

And I've been living in Brooklyn since the mid-90s, my friend-- sorry to wipe out your theory.

You can't tell me, though, that PLG/LM are perfect neighborhoods. No one's is-- not fancy-schmancy Brooklyn Heights (BQE in your front yard?), not Park Slope (482 restaurants and 4 of them worth eating at... I'm kidding), not Red Hook (great to walk and discover, terrible if you look at the junkyard dogs the wrong way as I did... once), not Williamsburg (yeah! let's live off our trust funds and pretend we're broke poets!), not Carroll Gardens... okay, maybe Carroll Gardens...

Every place has got its issues. I happen to like living within spaces and places that have said issues. I don't want to be lost in the 'burbs or stuck in congested, overfed and choked Manhattan. I love Brooklyn and couldn't imagine leaving. But I can't walk 15 minutes from the *only* nearby train stop (unless I missed one?) at night-- in a neighborhood that has much heavier car traffic than pedestrian-- and feel that unsafe... and have paid $1.5 mil for a place that needs work! As I say, it's just a matter of taste... and not mine.

I know that Lefferts is a real neighborhood-- we walked through it all day yesterday and could tell that. Just because I didn't feel at home shouldn't mean a thing to those who feel right there. It's just that we walked and walked and never found the things we have near us that make us feel happy-- e.g., a semi-decent bistro or two, a coffee shop where we can sit for a while and read the paper (no, not a Starbucks!), a movie theater. My neighborhood didn't always have these things, but it did have quiet-- which it still does, somewhat... though Lefferts has less of that, I'd say.

So again, just my taste.

Posted by: cat at March 20, 2006 7:20 PM

Fort Greene is pretty perfect.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 7:40 PM

Cat, no one here said that Lefferts Manor was a perfect nabe, we said that we like living here; we find that we are able to get food to cook in our own kitchens, and we are able to get takeout. These are the issues that you raised. If you are happy living in BH, find a house there. It is a fine nabe. But saying that the Rutland Road house is a 15 minute walk from the Prospect Park subway station is just plain wrong. It is also wrong to say that the nabe isn't quiet, it is. VERY quiet! The minute you turn off Flatbush you feel the quiet. And our very first cool cafe has just opened on Lincoln Road. If you could just manage to get off at the right subway stop you would see it!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 8:28 PM

Sorry, the last post was me.

Posted by: dt at March 20, 2006 8:31 PM

why is there always a fight going on about Lefferts? can't we all just get along?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 8:56 PM

Wasn't the post saying that the Rutland house was 15 minutes from the Parkside station? It should be a 5 minute walk from the Prospect Park station, no?

Posted by: west at March 20, 2006 9:16 PM

Yes, it's no more than 5 minutes,but Cat got off at the Parkside Ave.stop by mistake

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 20, 2006 9:44 PM

absolutely fantastic hot chocolate at that new coffee shop on Lincoln Road!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 10:24 PM

What many Lefferts Manor residents don't seem to get is that most new yorkers love the city for the convenience. I get off the subway and stop at any number of stores or restaurants to get food or take out, or the whole family walks a few blocks to eat out. No planning ahead, no calling and waiting for delivery. On weekends I take the kids to the cafe (with more than one to choose from!) and then we go to a bookstore and hang out. No subway, no car, no bus. That is City Living. The planning and scheming and making do that you all describe sounds dreadful to me. I'd much rather have convenience and choices than more space and better original details. Otherwise I would move to the burbs.

Speaking of which, DT what burb did you move to? The ones I've been to recently and considered moving to are chock full of creative professionals who have fled NYC prices. I was at a party in the burbs recently and everyone there was an ex park slope or upper west side resident. They were all interesting, liberal people. You must have moved to the wrong one.

After careful consideration, my wife and I decided to stay in Brooklyn. Why? For the convenience! We wouldn't give that up for the burbs, or for living in Lefferts Manor.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 20, 2006 11:32 PM

Lefferts Manor is Brooklyn.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 8:48 AM

poster 11:32 pm- The NY Times ran an article recently about how all those creative city people feel when they move to the burbs- and several popular burbs were cited. You should read it. I found it to be on the mark. And guess what! I don't feel the same way in Lefferts. That's just how it is.

Posted by: dt at March 21, 2006 9:08 AM

DT: I read that article and all of my creative burb friends laughed at it. It only featured people who have moved to the most boring, investment banker-full burbs (Ardsley, Scarsdale, Short Hills, etc.) Those are life-sucking places that no creative person would be happy in. Those people simply didn't investigate before they bought. As I've said, we've decided to stay in Brooklyn, but I find the burb-bashing tremendously ignorant (as I found that NY Times article). And you didn''t share what burb you had gone to. I'd really like to know.

Not to mention that you didn't address my point about life in Lefferts. Which is fine, you guys are happy to give up conveinience. That's cool. Just not for me.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 10:07 AM

MY idea of city living is being able to spend the day at the Botanic Gardens, taking a walk to Grand Army Plaza for great produce grown by small farmers, maybe checking out the latest exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum... All with no planning, need for the subway or car. Maybe spending the afternoon flying a kite with the kids in Prospect Park....

Where I lived in the burbs is not up for discussion. Why? Because you don't really care, you will come up with some negative like you did with the towns you mentioned. You are not interested in hearing what the experience of people living in Lefferts is either.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 11:20 AM

last post was me.

Posted by: dt at March 21, 2006 11:21 AM

Who's this "Anonymous" guy who is hellbent on trashing Lefferts Manor? Did you overlook an opportunity to buy there a few years ago and now you're sorry? Or do you own elsewhere and are jealous of Lefferts Manor's price escalation? What a loser!

Posted by: Ed at March 21, 2006 12:32 PM

In what way was I "trashing" Lefferts Manor? I honestly don't see it at all. I am pointing out that living there requires giving up things many of us don't want to give up. That is not trahing. As for my motivation, I bought elsewhere and my home has tripled in value in the time that, as far as I can tell, most LM prices not quite doubled. It seems to me that LM prices have increased much more slowly than in most other areas. Which is as it should be since the area has seen no actual improvements.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 12:46 PM

Why are people in Lefferts Manor so defensive. I live in Carrol Gardens, I have never been there, but now I am curious! I'm gonna get the bike out (when it gets out of the deep freeze) and make the trip!

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 12:56 PM

Anon 12:56: you should visit the area. Gorgeous houses in many different architectural styles. A real gem architecturally. There are no good stores or restuarants and the only way in or out is via Flatbush, which some of us find overwhelmingly noisy. But for many, the positves far outweigh the negatives. Whether or not houses there are worth over a million is debatable, but there is no question that it is a lovely area worth getting to know. And I love the house tour in May--you should do that too!
--The Trasher

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 1:27 PM

What's in the water in Lefferts that makes people so thin-skinned? You can't blame this one on trolls saying you'll get shot if you move there, either -- anon critic was totally reasonable. Yet over and over if you criticize Lefferts you're close-minded... or a new Manhattan transplant... or failed buyer... or jealous... No one has been called a closet racist yet, but maybe that's still coming.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 2:01 PM

I'm the one who was probably most energetic in defending Lefferts Manor and Prospect Lefferts Gardens several weeks ago when (IMO at least)there was an epidemic of "Lefferts trashing" by (IMO again) a number of "trolls." Happily I do NOT see that in the last few threads about my neighborhood and I, for one, welcome discussions about LM/PLG's strengths AND weeknesses.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 21, 2006 2:15 PM

Whoops--make that "weaknesses"--damn typos!

As long as I'm posting again, I should mention that the 36th Annual PlG House and Garden Tour will be on Sunday June 4th.

http://tinyurl.com/hhr8v

AFAIK our's is the second-longest running annual Brooklyn house tour (Park Slope was the first).

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 21, 2006 2:33 PM

I can understand that some think we Lefferts people are overly defensive when it comes to talking about our nabe. Perhaps we are. However, I must say, it's awfully hard to see the place you live in and love get trounced so consistently and not feel the urge to defend it.

What do I mean by trouncing? Well, it seems that no matter how many times we PLGers admit that we have problems with lack of amenities or have issues with crime, we are still accused of trying to hide those facts. Or, if we acknowledge those issues but then try to point out how we successfully co-exist with them, we are dismissed as either being "stupid" for living here or we are labeled as dishonest persons, cloaked with a hidden agenda to protect our rising property values.

I believe the closer truth of the matter is that the majority of PLG homeowners are people who have lived here, in relative contentment, for quite some time. We accept, and sometimes sincerely appreciate, the edginess of Flatbush Avenue; we know we can survive in the absence of neighborhood Whole Foods, or Starbucks, or an Al Di La. Meanwhile, we've come to adapt quite easily to Korean greengrocers, Fresh Direct, or the Meytex Lounge. New York magazine not so long ago ran an article on best Caribbean restaurants in the city. I didn't see it, but I'm told that many of those establishments are based in PLG. And, when all else doesn't cut it for us locally, well, it's not too great a deal to simply cross the park to the Slope for selected goods and services. For us, those are "ok" sacrifices in return for having the pleasure of the homes we love, the neighbors we adore, the park, gardens and zoo on our borders and quick access to public transport. On top of it, we've now got K-Dog & Dunebuggy. Woo hoo!

While there seem to be an increasing number of you who understand all that, the thing that still seems to stick in your craw whenever PLG gets mentioned are the asking prices on our homes, particularly those of Lefferts Manor. First of all, I have to agree with Bob Marvin when he states that these asking prices are far below the asking prices of similarly appointed homes in other Brooklyn neighborhoods. And, I also agree with Bob when he says that it really doesn't matter to many of us what the latest asking/selling prices are on own LM/PLG homes because we have a found a place in which we are actually happy and we ain't thinking about moving! To put it another way: Some of you who don't care for PLG don't seem to understand that the issues that you deem to be most important in terms of your neighborhood choices are not necessarily ours. It doesn't mean that you have made the wrong choices. But it certainly doesn't mean we have either!

A long time ago, I heard someone describe Brooklyn as a borough of extremely balkanized communities. I think that's a pretty sad comment which, unfortunately, seems to gets borne out time and again on this site. I'm just hoping that we can someday get to the point of accepting that we have different ways of being and seeing in this world, and reveling in the fact of our diversity, and not juding those who make choices that are different from our own. When that happens maybe all these rather silly debates about the "worth" of PLG will cease.

Notwithstanding all the above, and FWIW, at least the tone of these PLG debates seems to have ratcheted down a few notches from where they were not so long ago. IMO, that's a conversational development, in and of itself, which suggests that maybe we're at least headed in the right direction.

Posted by: GardensGal at March 21, 2006 2:51 PM

I think that the same person keeps trashing Lefferts over and over again, but pretending he's different people. It's ok, Mr. Anonymous. Good luck to you. We're just glad we don't live inside your head.

Posted by: Ed at March 21, 2006 4:04 PM

Obviously there's a racial element. Lefferts Manor is 90% black. However, it's much better preserved than 90% black Bed-Stuy, so people are more psyched about it. Plus it's next to Prospect Park.

Posted by: Ed at March 21, 2006 4:06 PM

By the way, Mr. Anonymous. It's OK that Lefferts Manor's charms don't outweigh its faults in your eyes. You're entitled to your perspective. Relax. Breathe.

Posted by: Ed at March 21, 2006 4:11 PM

I'm the one who was having the conversation about Lefferts, and I haven't accused anyone of being anything! So, I'm not sure where the thin skinned comment came from. What I WAS doing is answering cat's questions about how various issues are dealt with here in Lefferts. This may have been misunderstood by anonymous as an invitation to play the "my nabe is better than your's" game, with a little "why don't you move to the burbs" thrown in (as if anyone who reads this blog had any interest in doing that).

Posted by: dt at March 21, 2006 4:57 PM

VERY well said, Gardens Gal. Your comments are as apropros to other neighborhoods such as Bed Stuy, Crown Heights, etc.

Still trying to get over there! All of the recent pictures have really whetted my curiosity. Worse case - the tour. I hope to meet you and Bob there, or hopefully before, if Brownstoner has another social event. Looking forward to more photos, history and stories!

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at March 21, 2006 5:16 PM

Well, thanks for that, CrownHeightsProud. I definitely looking forward to meeting you as well! I always enjoy your informed and thoughtful posts, but especially the ones you share on the gentrification debates. This stuff can be very hard to talk about in a way that doesn't end up goring somebody's ox. I'm just looking forward to the time when we will become more sensitive (me included) to realizing the power of our words in the blogosphere and work to use them more productively. Tell me I'm not dreamin' :)

Posted by: Anonymous at March 21, 2006 5:42 PM

Oh, now you know that was me at 5:42!

Posted by: GardensGal at March 21, 2006 5:42 PM

If the only way in or out of PLG is Flatbush, where do Bedford and Nostrand Aves. go? I agree, Flatbush is the main drag (and connection to what others consider more "acceptable" Brooklyn neighborhoods (and I agree, Fort Green is perfect, just too expensive and going to be ruined if Bruce Ratner has his way -- another reason to stay where I am!), but Bedford is the longest street in all of Brooklyn, and even goes to Williamsburg...

Posted by: babs at March 21, 2006 7:16 PM

And Washington Avenue, which starts in PLG, is tyhe fastest way to Prospect Heights, Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at March 21, 2006 7:37 PM

And Ocean Avenue, which also starts in PLG, can be the quickest route to Ditmas Park, Midwood, Homecrest, and all the way out to the ocean at Sheepshead Bay.

Posted by: GardensGal at March 21, 2006 7:48 PM

Gal,
No, you're not dreaming. Who knows, it may actually happen!

I have to confess I'm much more articulate when I write here, than in person. The magic power of the delete button! Would that we all had one when we talk!
:)

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at March 21, 2006 9:03 PM

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