« Thursday Linkage Safety Takes Back Seat to Fun at 340 Bond »

April 13, 2006

Buyer's Market? Not In Boerum Hill

152 deanIn further confirmation that Boerum Hill is THE high-momentum nabe at the moment, we just received word that 152 Dean Street, featured a month ago as an Open House Pick and mobbed with house-hunters (not that there's necessarily any connection between the two), has gone into contract at $2.45 million, $150,000 over asking price. We'd love to hear some color on the bidding dynamics if anyone's privy to them. Frankly, we're not surprised the house sold itself--from the photos on the Elliman site, it looked perfectly designed to sell. Plus, it's hard to put a price on the Heath factor!
152 Dean Street [Prudential Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark
Mob Scene at 152 Dean [Brownstoner]




Posted by Brownstoner at 9:00 AM | Comments (40)
Categories: Properties

Comments

Is that more than a similar place would cost in Brooklyn Heights, or about the same?

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at April 13, 2006 9:10 AM

A similar place in the Heights would be at least 4M, perhaps 5M on a really good block.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 9:25 AM

This place needs at least $200,000 of work. Just basic stuff. New bathrooms, new kitchen, painting, refinishing of floors, plus the upper floors could stand to be reconfigured (especially the third floor) and who know what the plumbing and electrical needs are.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 9:28 AM

The place may in fact need an additional $200K of work, but to my eyes and aesthetic it's in move-in condition. Also, I cannot help but be pleased that my 3/20 post has been bourne out. ;-)

Any word on the progress of 327 President?


"No surprise on the traffic to the Dean Street house. Would also not be surprised if it finally sold for a little above the ask. With the market slowing a bit, I think the trend is now towards quality. Thus, I am predicting that the President Street [Carroll Gardens]house will languish for a few months until the heirs realize that the "fools market" of 2004-2005 is over. Above a certain dollar amount, your ordinary househunter is not interested in playing developer/contractor."

Posted by: crouchback at April 13, 2006 10:27 AM

Move-in ready? Perhaps we were looking at different houses.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 11:11 AM

Man, that house is two blocks from a nasty set of projects. If you folks out there had $2+ million to spend, would you buy that house???

Posted by: gm at April 13, 2006 11:28 AM

GM,

ever look at a map of NYCHA projects? There are very few places in DUMBO, FG, CH, BH, VH and CG that aren't close to public housing.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 11:36 AM

I REALLY don't want to start an argument about projects/gentrification/desireability etc., but I just really don't understand the argument gm and others are trying to make. "Two blocks from a nasty set of projects"? The argument that that would devalue a property holds no water whatesoever. For starters, what part of NYC is NOT within a few blocks of some sort of projects? Second, what are the hottest housing markets in NYC right now (beside Boerum Hill...)? West Chelsea - MANY more projects that BH. E. Vill./LES - WAY more projects than BH. Harlem - MANY MANY more projects than BH. Finally - and again, I really hope to not start a big brouhaha over this - statistics bear out that something like 90%+ of the violence in housing projects is (um, how should I put this?) housing-project-resident on housing-project-resident. So unless you're planning on heading into the housing project itself to buy your drugs, you're really not at any more of a risk living one block from a housing project than you are living 10 blocks from a project (and I'd venture a guess that 75%+ of the population of NYC lives within 10 blocks of a project of some sort).

Posted by: Mr. Minerva at April 13, 2006 11:46 AM

GM's post is the scariest thing I've experienced in 14 years of raising two kids within two blocks of the Gowanus Houses. What is nasty is our fears.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 11:52 AM

love it when Brooklyn-ites get their knickers in a bunch!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 12:04 PM

A friend lives in a brownstone she owns a half block from the project on Wycoff. She says that crime on the block has made her leery about staying on the block with her two kids.

I like BH and can totally see someone paying $2M to live in one of these houses, but to say that the PJs are irrelevant unless you set foot in them is just implausible. It's a tradeoff, not a deal-killer, but it is a tradeoff.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 12:06 PM

That house is only a few doors down from Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams' place. Perhaps that explains the price.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 12:11 PM

We looked (and nearly closed) at 201 Dean about 1.5 years back and believe me, the projects were a consideration. Despite (of because of) alot of foot traffic heading up Bond, I didn't feel safe walking home by myself from the Hoyt/Schermerhorn station in the evening. Drove past the house every day for a month and saw public urination against parked cars and heard about the shooting at the hair salon on Bond St. What ultimately made us change our minds was the lack of a backyard and a tenant we would need to evict, but the projects was a huge consideration.

Posted by: Anon at April 13, 2006 12:34 PM

Sorry if my post has led to revisiting this issue from last July. http://brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2005/07/
boerum_hill_ope_1.html

Posted by: gm at April 13, 2006 12:41 PM

This listing is in many ways as far from the projects as any house could be in Boreum Hill - if you dont want to live near projects then you dont want to live in BH.
I actually think that this house is in a real good location and in reality the projects wont impact your day to day.
I also think that while people may be overstating the negative, I think others are being a bit utopian - just ask yourself this - its 9:30 at night your at Warren and Hoyt and you need to get to 4th Ave - do you walk up to Wycoff and then east or do you walk through the Gowanus Houses.
If people here are honest virtually no one is walking through the Houses.

Posted by: David at April 13, 2006 12:56 PM

Again I think folks get so hung up on neigborhood name ---projects in Boerum Hill only 2 blocks away.
Well, very pricey Cobble Hill houses are only 2 blocks away also(going west)...any suggestion that Cobble Hill is under crime seige?
And very safe Carroll Gardens begins 1 block south of projects.
Or is it that any crime element doesn't go that way because of these 'neighborhood boundaries' that people here are fixated on.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 1:03 PM

Um, I didn't say a thing about where there is more crime, I have no idea, I said the house was two blocks from some nasty projects. I own a house just on the Cobble Hill side of the BQE trench. It's nastier there too than on blocks like Tomkins, Strong and Cheever, or parts of Warren, Baltic and Kane, which I live on. When I say nasty I mean it's ugly, pure and simple, in my eyes. Why does that offend and scare some people?

Posted by: gm at April 13, 2006 2:08 PM

So only implication was to bring up fact that ugly buildings exist 2 blocks away? Probably on streets that you wouldn't pass to go shopping or to subway. And that somehow should bring down price exactly what percent from a house 3 blocks away from an ugly building or a house that doesn't have an ugly building for a whole 4 blocks?
Would you bring up fact that some very expensive BkHts houses are block away from that ugly Cadman Plaza complex?
I doubt there are many blocks, homes in Brownstone Bklyn that aren't too close to projects (or other ugly bldgs), highway, on bus route, across from school or other undesirable institution(jail), etc, etc, etc.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 2:21 PM

oh , I forgot -many are too close to Atlantic Yards.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 2:22 PM

And I'm still wondering if any of the posters here had $2.4+ million, if they would get into a bidding war to buy that house over any of these, which would leave the buyer with more than $500,000 to do work on the house to their own taste.

http://www.brooklynbridgerealty.com/display.cgi?mode=display_property&id=1825&CFID=67714&CFTOKEN=54004081

http://www.brownharrisstevens.com/detail.aspx?id=467262&CFID=67714&CFTOKEN=54004081

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=813634&CFID=67714&CFTOKEN=54004081

Posted by: gm at April 13, 2006 2:23 PM

I grew up in the Wyckoff housing projects and if I could afford to buy a brownstone right across the street, I wouldn't hesitate. I think many people become very narrow-minded when they hear "housing project."

If you are currently in the market to buy a house and it's within 2 blocks of a housing project and you love the house, buy it. There are many hard-working families who reside in the projects and I come from one of them.

I agree with a previous poster that the crime victims are residents themselves. The projects are like Vegas "what happens in the projects stays in the projects."

I'm not going to pretend that there isn't any crime or drugs with any housing project, but drugs, crime and violence can be found in any street in mainstream America.

Yes, I am fortunate enough to be able to buy a home these days, but don't look down on people because they are not as blessed as you are. Perhaps if you're so concerned about the affect the projects may have on your quality of life, then do something about it. Become a big brother or big sister, instead of getting Viking and Sub-Zero appliances down grade to GE, Whirlpool, etc. and invest the extra money in your new communities. Don't be so quick to dismiss the projects because in a couple of years when they become condos & co-ops there will be many of you who will be interested in getting a piece of the action.

If I have changed someone's perception of the projects that's great and if I haven't hopefully your narrow-mindedness will lower the prices in the area, so that maybe then my family could afford to live where we grew up.

Posted by: anon at April 13, 2006 2:31 PM

Actually it's interesting, because 152 is inside the boundaries of the Boerum Hill Landmark District, while much of what's called "Boerum Hill" is not. There is a premium for actually being in what is the real "Boerum Hill" as opposed to surrounding areas piggybacking on the cache and aesthetic insurance of the landmark district.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/maps/boerum_hill.pdf

Posted by: anonymous at April 13, 2006 2:50 PM

Neighborhood boundaries are not based on historic districts. That's crazy talk. That said, this is the best block in Boerum Hill and the house is nice and wide. In my opinion, Boerum Hill is very much a downtown neighborhood and has more foot traffic, car traffic and other traffic than more outlying neighborhoods or even Cobble Hill. Dean Street traffic can be awful. I've lived in the neighborhood for 10 years and I love it, but I am finding these prices hard to fathom given the quality of life. There are good public schools, great transportation, good eating and improving shopping, but it is still loud and dirty.

I'm OK with the projects. A lot of their kids go to school with my kids so I know there are a lot of very nice hardworking families there. I can't say the projects enhance the neighborhood but they don't help either. Coming home from the Hoyt Schermerhorm stop at night down Hoyt Street is fine but I wouldn't go down Bond. One block makes a big difference.

Posted by: sandstone at April 13, 2006 3:17 PM

the house is not two blocks from the projects. outside of living on pacific st., the earlier poster is correct: you're about as far from the pjs as you can get and still live in BH. in fact, if you're commuting from either the F at bergen or the atlantic avenue trains, you're never even straying from a brownstone-lined street. and you know what? the pjs are part of the neighborhood. they're part of why i like living in BH: it will never be completely gentrified with annoying people who will be deterred at living near someone who can't afford to live in a brownstone.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 3:22 PM

geez - "piggybacking on the cache and aesthetic insurance of the landmark district." -
I don't want to be guilty of that...
how shall I refer to my neighborhood from now on? can I just add 'vicinity' to one of the Historic Nabes or is that the same thing?


Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 4:16 PM

I've lived for 20 years between Smith St and Gowanus Houses. Even during the worst years of crime/violence in NYC -
disturbance of my 'quality of life' has been more negatively affected by the new nightlife of Smith Street than by any problems with Gowanus Houses.

Posted by: Pete at April 13, 2006 4:22 PM

last I checked, the public schools in BH sucked big time. SAT scores were terrible. what does it tell you when 95% of the kids in the BH school district are on subsidized breakfast and lunch?

Posted by: Anon at April 13, 2006 4:25 PM

4:25, it tells me you need to thank God (the Universe, Whomever) for your own situation, and then tells me we all need to get off of our collective butts, and I certainly include myself in this, and make improved public education a priority in this city.

Anon 2:03 posted an inspiring post. Perhaps we should care less about Viking and more about reading and writing. The uneducated and hopeless of today are the social problems of tomorrow, and help to create the people we are afraid of.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at April 13, 2006 4:35 PM

How did you check the schools? Statistics? You'll never learn anything about schools or neighborhoods if that is your idea of checking. Go meet the students, teachers and administrator of PS 261 or PS 38. Engaged, energetic, inclusive tolerant and successful...exactly what NYC is all about.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 4:39 PM

If someone is so preoccupied with Public school stats, SAT scores, % on subsidized, etc...where looking to buy or live....I don't think is going to be happy in many places in Brooklyn or rest of NYC.
Try LI North Shore or the like where they are all hyped up on that... and you'll have your premium public school district.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 13, 2006 4:52 PM

As someone who has lived on both Dean and Pacific and whose child attended school on Bergen in Boerum Hill, the only thing I can say is that I pity the new owners the bumper-to-bumper traffic that they will endure from 3:00 to 6:00 everyday. The neighborhood has major limitations, including the projects, mediocre housing stock, the seedienss of Fulton St, etc. But from a qualiy-of-life point of view, those three streets in particular are the pits. Thought this open secret was keeping prices in the neighborhood down.

Posted by: anon at April 13, 2006 5:06 PM

I live in 201 Dean. Boerum Hill has many conveniences, but living here is often hellish. The foot traffic and traffic traffic on Bond St. are nightmares. We literally hear "baby's daddy" screaming matches nearly every night. This is only topped by the incessant honking of cars and 18-wheel trucks going up the street every morning.

Heath and Michelle must have noise-proof windows.

Posted by: anonymous at April 13, 2006 7:59 PM

anyway? what about the original question? bidding war? any info? i saw this house and i have to say honestly it was in pretty bad condition. The basement was hell, it had structural issues, all the superficial surface work was problamatic and the bathrooms sucked as well as the kitchen. $200,000 to reno is a dream number, you were definitely looking 1/2 million....i own and i look at houses all the time and i was particularly surprised at the number on this house. but some people do think bh is hot...and people are easily manipulated. i think giovanni ribosi (or however you spell his name) probably bought the house (he was the mystery actor at the open house) fully expecting to put that much money in to the house. people will pay out the rear end for cool. it is new york after all, isn't this the epicenter of american cool?

Posted by: anon at April 14, 2006 1:54 AM

why dont some of you constantly complaining bloggers (you know who you are) go to some community board meetings and complain there? you might actually impact your community positively. quality of life issues must be addressed with the community board...it is one of the few real ways to be heard.

Posted by: anon at April 14, 2006 1:59 AM

Hi Anon 7:59
I used to live at 201 Dean and moved as soon as I could for the exact reasons you state. Soul crushing noise from people and trucks plus getting robbed at gunpoint infront of the building at 12 noon. Crazy thing is that was over 12 years ago. It's sad to hear that nothing has changed. I guess no one's going to any community meetings.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 14, 2006 8:39 AM

I think bougie white people need to move to the suburbs, not Brooklyn.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 14, 2006 11:09 AM

as projects go, wyckoff and gowanus have a pretty good reputation. do people in the nabe really hear gunshots? the people i know who live in the gowanus houses seem very stable and hardworking, and haven't complained about crime or violence.

Posted by: anon at April 14, 2006 11:26 AM

I'd guess that if lived in or across from Gowanus you would have heard gunshots over the years...but not daily happening...and gunshots were much more common 10 years ago.
I've live for 20 years less than a block away, never heard any, never been held up, mugged, etc.
But ,yes, there are incidents of muggings and perps running into projects. And there are also incidents of such stuff many many blocks away from projects. This is NY. This is inner city - even if certain pockets are 'gentrified'.
Generally one of safer areas/precincts of NY.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 14, 2006 12:00 PM

Of course there is crime it's NYC, Brooklyn projects, inner city what do you expect. You should have been there in the 70's and early 80's. It's a shame there's no Brooklynites in Brooklyn. Enjoy your 2M brownstone, "DEAN STREET WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU."

Posted by: Mike Kennedy at May 7, 2006 8:41 AM

I've lived in BH on Dean St. since 1964--& I agree with the blogger who said: if you're worried about living near projects, or how many pupils get free breakfasts/lunches; etc. etc., then you prob'ly don't belong in Boerum Hill! To live here you probably should belong to that evil tribe which the present administration refers to as Liberals. Of course; with houses now in the millions, perhaps that will not always be so..My son attended the Jr. High at Kane & Court Sts; which at the time was probably 95% non-white and with many of the kids coming from the Projects; and attending PTA meetings one could see how many terrific families and kids came from there.

Posted by: Stegman at May 20, 2006 3:07 PM

Post a comment

Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.

Latest Restaurant Additions