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April 18, 2006

Spotlight 5th Ave: Eyesore Hanging On By Thread

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Driving down Fifth Avenue in Park Slope last week, we were struck at what an eyesore this corner of Fifth Avenue and Ninth Street is and were surprised that some crafty developer hadn't figured out a way to get his hands on this prime spot. Anyone know what the hold-up is? GMAP




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:10 AM | Comments (48)
Categories: Neighborhoods

Comments

I lived round the corner from that corner for ages. It is the start of trashy 5th avenue which continues from there forever with only one exception that I know of: cafe regular (which is down a side street anyway).

Dunkin donuts bought and fitted out a weird L shaped chunk of the space about a year ago. I can only suppose that since they could not get the corner lot, someone isn't interested in selling, and the air rights are wasted. Is there still that dirty donut shop next to dunkin? maybe they are the problem.

Actually, in the end, I don't mind it because it reminds one to turn around and go back unless you need a plastic bucket from a dollar store, a manicure, junk food, a cellphone case etc etc. It is remarkable how sudden the change is on 5th before and after 9th st - up on 7th avenue, the opposite is the case: nothing much of interest below 9th, all the nice places south of 9th (at least for me).

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 11:47 AM

You say eyesore; I say "welcome funky remnant of a Brooklyn where not every square foot was built to the maximium sun-blocking height"

John Ife

Posted by: John Ife at April 18, 2006 11:49 AM

I believe there was a department store on this site at one point. A&S, perhaps?

Posted by: mimimi at April 18, 2006 11:55 AM

"Is there still that dirty donut shop next to dunkin? maybe they are the problem."

No, Dee Dee Donu went out of business a couple months ago, presumably because the contrast between its own filthy premises and Dunkin's generic but hygenic presence was just too great.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 12:08 PM

Why do you drive everywhere? Your car is more of an eyesore than this store.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 12:50 PM

I can think of a few more exceptions south of ninth:

Kinara - not the best ambience but some of the best Indian food in PS
Royal - cool bar
Commonwealth - cool bar
Buttermilk - cool bar
Jack's - good, simple food
Hot Bagels (not sure if that's actually the name) - new good bagle place

Plus there have been new non-food and drink places opening up, a brooklyn properties office, fillmore office, Wamu bank, doral bank, etc.

Yes, it still has a ways to go but condos are going up, people are coming in and the strip is changing very quickly.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:00 PM

He drives everywhere because unlike your ironic, car service addicted self, he has two kids and a wife to carry around when he goes places.

Posted by: Meryckawick at April 18, 2006 1:05 PM

Anon 12:50, if you'd like to babysit for our two young children or fill in for us at our full-time job, we'll happily walk instead of drive. As it is, we usually have an hour or less a week to get out and take pictures, so if we were restricted to going on foot all you'd see is a whole lot of Clinton Hill.

Posted by: Brownstoner at April 18, 2006 1:07 PM

The stores south of 9th St. look like all of 5th Ave. used to look. For those who only have a dollar, a dollar store is a great place to shop. (I guess they have to come up with the $.09 unless they are buying clothing.)

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:11 PM

Plenty of parents work full-time jobs and still do quite well without a car. Everyone is always complaining about traffic, but no one is willing to do without the precious automobile.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:14 PM

As ususal, posters can't stop themselves from being inflamatory.

While the shops south of 9th street on 5th avenue may not be aesthetically pleasing, they actually sell useful items, unlike most of the north slope (where I live). I particularly recommend Eagle Provisions, a polish supermarket btw 17th and 18th for good quality and value meats, sausages, pierogis, etc. Worth a 63 bus ride. Let the wife and kids walk or bike for a change of pace.

As for new developments, there are plenty. I actually find these a bit ambititous given the lack of yuppy trappings in the area. (The bars mentioned above notwhithstanding) The chief attraction I see are spectacular harbor views for the higher floors. I also dig the the cemetary, but I can never tell whether the market views it as a plus or a minus.

Posted by: bkborn at April 18, 2006 1:17 PM

I agree with John Ife at 11:49. Why does everything have to be gentrified? I miss my old Brooklyn!

Posted by: Yente at April 18, 2006 1:19 PM

5th Ave south of 9th is beginning to change. The old Salvation Army building is gone. Other dumps are for sale. The old Dee & Dee store is being turned into apartments -- either for rent or sale (don't know). Kinara, Commonwealth, and Buttermilk are signs of the future. That said, it still has a way to go and those of use who live by 5th are very jealous of 7th Ave in the South Slope.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:19 PM

It does seem mystery sometimes why these single story bldgs exist in what would seem lots that would have real development potential.
I live off Smith and plenty of examples there - Pacific, Warren, Douglass(very large parcel-completely unused), etc.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:31 PM

I've always wondered if the group of restaurants on Smith & Pacific (Gravy, Pacifico, La Rosa, Trout Bar) were some sort of a real estate play. Same owner, one story, low budget hip renovations but lots of FAR in great location. I'd be sad so see them go since I like all of them but they are a mystery.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:38 PM

I have neither a car or a license. I get every where via public transportation and only occasionally take a cab. If NYC had dedicated bike lanes (like ex: Amsterdam) then I would bike, but the traffic in NYC is just to zany, I'm safe walking, bussing or subwaying my way around.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:41 PM

Re: FAR

Maybe not everyone drools at the prospect of knocking down a building and putting up a bigger one, or adding on to the existing.

I was at Pacifico the other night for dinner and I think they are using their space just fine. The decks and low building give the restaurant character, and if they decided to go FAR crazy and put in some big building, I wouldn't want to go to Pacifico. The food is good, but I go there mainly for the space.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 1:46 PM

Yente, "Why does everything have to be gentrified?"

Answer: "It's all about the Benjamins baby!!!"

Posted by: BrownBomber at April 18, 2006 1:47 PM

whats up with dissing on the cornerstore bodega. this is a staple of life and should be celebrated not demolished. soon you won't be able to get a snapple for a 1.25 a water for a dollar, any newspaper in most languages, a cup of coffe for 75 cents, a pack of gum, aspirin, on the cheap, its fast and convenient. Its bad enough that corner is littered with 3 or 4 bix box pharmacies - all competing with overinflated prices. long live the bodega!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 2:19 PM

Nostalgia aside, Bodegas are often the worst thing for a community on the rise. They invite loitering and often attract a criminal element. I often wonder why? Korean grocers do not tolerate loiterers but Arab and Hispanic shops appear to welcome it. Any theories out there?

Posted by: Awkwardly Confused at April 18, 2006 2:40 PM

oiy, don't want to attract those loiterers/criminal element...
Sometimes I do have to wonder about the
'element' that is moving into to Brownstone bklyn these days. I'm sure most are not quite so obvious in their suburban/upper-middle class view of the urban inner-city life.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 2:55 PM

I like this corner and the stretch of 5th Avenue that begins here. I guess I don't mind its being an "eyesore", since there are fewer "bugaboos", yuppee markets, wine and cheese shops, etc. It's the one part of PS I might actually consider living in nowadays.

Posted by: Kris at April 18, 2006 3:17 PM

i remember 5th ave wasnt even consider park slope oh wells. 5th ave use all the way through sunset park is like that pic.

Posted by: armchair warrior at April 18, 2006 3:20 PM

The "criminal element" is more dangerous to the bodega owner than to anyone else, so I don't think they actively encourage their presence. There have been times in this city where being a cop was less dangerous than being a bodega owner. Too, too many have been robbed and/or killed just trying to make a living. They also supply a need. They are often the only source of daily staples in many inner city nabes, as larger supermarkets have been few and far between.

I'm with John Ife, Yente, 2:55 and others - not everything, everywhere, needs to be gentrified. There needs to be more to this city than always catering to the whims of those with a fist full of Benjamins.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at April 18, 2006 3:24 PM

Count me in the crowd who disagree with Brownstoner on this one. This is a vibrant community and many of the stores are family run and locally owned. I also agree that the neighborhood will change as more people (with more money) move in. That is fine, but it does not mean that there is anything wrong with the corner now.

Posted by: Jim at April 18, 2006 3:45 PM

it's better than it used to be. the spot on which this photo was taken from has new sinage and recently had the entire building cleaned up. it's still pretty dismal...but better than it was. it seems pretty likely that the revival of the avenue will simply hop right across the intersection.

Posted by: glitch p-udding at April 18, 2006 3:53 PM

looks like we have some gentriconfrontation!!! the latest craze that's been sweeping dailyheights.com.

cheap corner groceries have been in brooklyn's nabes since brooklyn began. i can't imagine that most of the folk who live in park slope (or anywhere else in brooklyn for that matter) want to lose the places on the corner where they can pick up a six-pack, diapers, toilet paper, cigs, etc.

i'd also like to second the props for eagle provisions. not only is the meat top notch but it has one of the best beer selections in the city. not too $$$ either. do yourself a favor and walk down 5th over the prospect expressway and pick up some kielbasa and a sixpack. mmm...

Posted by: arsenal at April 18, 2006 3:55 PM

yeah not everything needs to be polished and look like some generic suburban strip mall...

it adds character.

people remember the corner shop, rather than some cookie cutter dunkin donuts or starbucks.

you want polished and new, move to hoboken>>> that fake NYC outpost

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 4:31 PM

I'm wondering....are the native NYers anti-gentrification because we're nostalgic about the bad ole days and the newcomers just want it to be the suburbs? Little poll: Where are you from/how long have you been here and do you like the new Brooklyn or not?

Posted by: Yente at April 18, 2006 4:32 PM

why pay harbor fitness when ymca is around the corner.

and I laugh at the weak attempts to romanticise or preserve 5th avenue retail above 9th st. Roll on the laptop army and bugamoms, I say. There are no redeeming features to it at all, no history, no community, nothing. I just see trash thrown, plastic products, noise, litter, commercialism, and unhealthy food. If allowed to breathe, it grows up to be a mini version of a strip mall from the burbs, so smother it now: carpet bomb the blocks with yoga salons, exposed brick coffee shops, gourmet sandwich places and antique shops.

Bodegas are everywhere either way, nobody is turning up their nose at a bodega or newsagent!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 4:35 PM

Well, we certainly qualify as native New York--though not native Brooklynites. We appreciate seediness as much as the next guy, but for some reason this scene doesn't strike us as anything worth preserving, whereas similarly unpolished portions of the east village, say, might. We have no nostalgic connection to it, that's all. We get why others might feel differently though for sure--so there's really not as much contention here as some might think. Our post was more about being surprised that no one had torn it down than a call to arms to do so.

Posted by: Brownstoner at April 18, 2006 4:57 PM

For Yente's poll...I've lived in CG my entire life (50 yrs), went to elementary school there, went to private Catholic high school in downtown Brooklyn, private college in Manhattan (financed by my clerical jobs, so don't think I'm a rich private school snob). I have great memories of growing up in Brooklyn. CG was a safe, solid community, a working-to middle-class neighborhood, now becoming a bit more "rich," of course. Everyone knew everyone and their children, and everyone looked out for each other and their children. We had a regular "beat cop" patroling Smith Street, Officer Walsh, who knew all the store owners and residents who shopped there. I am not anti-gentrification, per se, but my main worry is overdevelopment, and the notion that some people seem to possess about saving Brooklyn from itself and, intentionally or not, turning it into a suburb. (Granted, there are areas in Brooklyn that sorely need revitalization, and I hope these areas can be eventually turned around.) I also don't care for the notion that every inch of FAR must be utilized and developed. I do fear that we won't be able to save Brooklyn from losing its unique character. Having said that, I do enjoy the new and interesting stores that are setting up shop, and I do patronize them. Starbucks? Sure, I patronize Starbucks as I grew up on caffe latte (in an Italian household), but I also buy plain ol' regular coffee at Park Bagel on the corner of Smith & President. Barnes & Noble on Court Street, sure, but I also buy books at BookCourt, one of the last of the indies which I sincerely hope can stay in business as it has successfully done for decades now. Some of the new shops fill a need, some of them don't (do we REALLY need 75 restaurants on Smith Street? No, but that's what rakes in the money to pay the rising rents and costs of owning real estate here). In any event, I can't imagine living anywhere else. I just hope that development doesn't run amok.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 5:22 PM

I think my bug a boo has over 300 pollution free city miles on her and i expect to get three more years of use before i put her up on blocks or sell her. Anyone who has driven a bug knows how well they can handle the uneven bluestone sidewalks. I know people who have gone through multiple lesser quality strollers in the same amount of time. You can load the sucker with grocery bags as well. Great design. Superb function. Unsurpassed form. By the way, the YMCA pool is a petri dish!

Posted by: pop above 9th street at April 18, 2006 5:42 PM

As my pseudonym says I'm brooklyn born. I also have the family income and many of the sensibilities of the yuppy swine I live among in the north slope. That said, the retail infill in blue chip brooklyn is bothersome. I hate going Tarzian and paying them in flesh for a can of paint. I'm a lover not a fighter so forget about Lowes or Home Depot. When I was a lad there were three hardware stores between Flatbush and 9th on 7th avenue.

The rub of having wealthy neighbors is that they don't go to hardware stores. They have their handymen and servants go for them. When they need household items, they use their one hour/week of free time take their suburus/audi wagons out to Jersey. That leaves me with a lot of wine, cheese and veternarians, but not a lot else.

Posted by: bkborn at April 18, 2006 5:48 PM

I'm still trying to figure out if Anon 4:35 was being serious, sarcastic, or both. While I enjoy exposed brick coffeehouses and antique shops, I also believe there is a place for bodegas on the same block.

I was born here, but we moved when I was 6, and I didn't come back to live until after college, and I've been here ever since. When I moved back here in 1977, the UWS was still a funky home for actors, musicians and senior citizens, if you were west of CPW. My voice teacher had a 7 room apartment on 69th Street and Amsterdam, and was paying around $450 a month, and he'd been there since the 1950's. Another teacher had bought her brownstone in the 80's off CPW for $35K. Over in Bklyn, Park Slope was in about the same condition.

I finally ended up renting in Bed Stuy, because we have relatives there, and was saving to buy. At the time I moved there, better houses on better blocks were going for around $85K. No one would think of paying more than $95K for anything in BS. Many of my neighbors owned at least 2 or 3 houses,besides the one they lived in, and my landlady owned over 50, and was one of the largest brownstone owners in Brooklyn (and one of the worst).

All that to say that for me, the last 20 years are "old Bklyn" to me. I used to visit my best friend who was going to Pratt in the late 70's, and she lived in a succession of really funky apartments all over CH and FG, including a carriage house on Washington, another apartment next door to the Pfizer Manse, as well as apts on Clermont, and DeKalb. Clinton Hill was not the gentrified place it is today, let me tell you. My friend was mugged twice, and friends had their apartments broken into. But the neighborhood always had a coolness to it. I have to say that for me, Clinton Hill/Fort Greene has many of the features that make it an ideal example of a new Brooklyn. It is still,(and I hope it stays that way)a great mixture of people: Homeowners and renters of every income level and racial group and occupation, students, lower income folks and the wealthy, also of every racial mix. It is not uncommon to see interracial couples, gay couples, young, old, American and foreign. You can hear gospel music on Sundays coming from magnificent churches, and the daily call to prayer at the mosque on Fulton St, as well as seeing people hurring home for Shabbat on Friday. That's what Brooklyn (and America) should be about.

Now please - I don't think the nabe is perfect, and I do fear that it is pricing out many of the people and businesses that make it a great place. I also wouldn't want it to be an urban theme park - look, brownstones and happy couples with toddlers and a dog! Gack!!

I like the fact that where I live now - Crown Heights/Bed Stuy border, is still evolving. I welcome anyone who is willing to take the good with the bad, settle down and help improve the hood in their own way, and not try to mold it into something it's not. Each neighborhood has its own identity, and its own history that needs to be preserved even as we work to make things better for us all. It can't be all about money, or amenities, or even architecture. It has to be about community.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at April 18, 2006 6:32 PM

I was born in Astoria (my father worked at LaGuardia airport on Pan American seaplanes!) and moved to a working class community on Long Island when I was 4. I've been living in NYC since 1971, in Brooklyn since 1977--first Bay Ridge, then Park Slope, and Clinton Hill since 1989.

Of course the value of my condo has skyrocketed and I can't say I'm not pleased, but I do hope that my neighborhood and my city still has the economic diversity that's gone from Brooklyn Heights and disappearing from Park Slope. Racial and economic diversity make everyone's lives richer, imho.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 6:51 PM

There is no reason to romanticize bodegas. Corner stores are great and part of what makes NYC NYC, but they don't have to be filthy and sell crappy merchandise, as the Korean markets have proven. There IS a middle ground between bodegas (one of the negatives of NYC life) and suburban shopping malls.

Posted by: anonymous at April 18, 2006 8:15 PM

i was being serious in wanting yuppification, but speaking specifically of 5th avenue south slope: nobody should shed a tear to see the stores there priced out.

I've no doubt I'd love to live in the existing fort greene or clinton hill, mugging risk included. Inter-racial and inter-income mixes are great and much more brooklyn than a bunch of cheap stores on southern 5th avenue.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 8:38 PM

speaking of bodegas - any one know what's going in on the corner of 6th and 9th (one block up from that photo)? The old bodega there had about 3 cans of soda (all pepsi brands) and not much else. I was glad to see it go! It'll be nice to have some open (and brightly lit) store on that corner. walking up 9th at night can be weirdly deserted except for the corner of 5th ave and 9th st (once again, the corner shown in the picture) - eye sore or not, there are PEOPLE there late at night - that's the best thing about neighborhoods, isn't it?

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2006 8:53 PM

***DUH*** THE REASON WHY THIS PLOT AT 5TH AVE AND 9TH ST HASN'T BEEN DEVELOPED IS THAT THE "F"-TRAIN IS DIRECTLY UNDER THESE BUILDINGS AS IT GOES FROM BEING ELEVATED AND PARALLEL TO 9TH ST AT 4TH AVE, TO BEING UNDERNEATH 9TH ST BY 6TH AVE! Unless a super-expensive platform/structure is built over the shallow railbed (a la West Side Yard and Atlantic Yard proposals), then only a 1-story light structure is possible. Simple developers' economics. Sheesh...

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 9:05 PM

Anonymous 8:28: the same people who shop on 5th Ave. shop on Fulton St. in downtown Brooklyn and on Fulton St. in Clinton Hill--the ones who are priced out of the neighborhoods they've lived in for generations.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 9:07 PM

check out the book 'Brooklyn's Park Slope' by Brian Merlis, page 114-115.. yes an eyesore, but both the diner and cigar shop have been around for over 100 years..

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 10:09 PM

Brownstoner, you could use Zip Car to get around. My spouse and I both work (more than) full-time and have 2 young children, but can't bring ourselves to further clog the Bklyn streets with our own vehicle. So we mostly hoof it (folks can turn their noses up at the bugaboo, but groceries do fit and it doesn't emit smog). When we have to, we Zip Car-it, which yes means re-installing car seats everytime, but generally it works.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2006 11:32 PM

I agree with [ April 18, 2006 02:19 PM ] .. Stoner, you should turn the angry lens on the disgusting glut of drugstores that clog the streets (say the opposite side of Fifth Ave from the picture). Between the explosion of bank branches, and the duane-worth-cvs'es all over the place, give me yoga instructors eating in unhygienic donut stores any day!

Posted by: WindsorTerrZips at April 19, 2006 12:11 AM

What's wrong with Duane Reade? I love Duane Reade and Rite Aid. Long live the chains!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 19, 2006 8:03 AM

Thanks for participating in the Yente show. And thank you, Brownstoner, for letting me take over. Hope you don't mind. I do like an evolving nabe. It's kind of exciting to see which new store or restaurant will open next. However, once the area becomes a surburban Yuppy mall, I'm outta there! The yuppification of Park Slope has treated me well financially, as I bought early on, but I moved because I no longer enjoyed being there. I'm loving Bed Stuy now because it feels like Brooklyn circa 1979 (with less crime), but I know it's only a matter of time before it becomes Soho. As for Brownstoner's car, driving is a way of life in the suburbs and this just goes to show you that Brooklyn has become the suburbs! I do hear alot of burb bashing on this blog, but I think it's the same people who want to make Brooklyn into Anytown, USA.

Posted by: Yente at April 19, 2006 8:34 AM

Thank you Anon 9:05 for reading the question and answering same. The property is encumbered.

Posted by: tom at April 19, 2006 4:43 PM

All these conversations end up in the same pro/ anti gentrification argument; it's boring. I lived around the corner from here for five years. I think you can have a strip that caters to low income people without it having to be so fugly. This corner was disgusting when I lived there. That does not mean I want a Starbucks there...just a cleaner, safer corner. It's classist and a tad racist to think that making a corner cleaner and safer makes it yuppie or white.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 21, 2006 1:53 PM

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