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June 20, 2006
House of the Day: Stuy Heights Gem
Another beauty from Stuyvesant Heights by way of Craigslist. The 4,300-square-foot two-family is configured as an owner's triplex over a garden rental. By all appearances (and the broker's flowery prose) it sounds like this is one of those jaw-droppers, complete with original restored woodwork, wainscotting, and pier mirrors. The 1899 house also has a center stair with an "intricate oak basket weave design" on the railings and restored golden oak lattice work overhead. Located on Bainbridge off Lewis Avenue, the house is only a couple of blocks from the A train. If all this is true, the asking price of $1,235,000 seems a little lower than we would have expected. What say ye?
Bainbridge at Lewis Ave [Craigslist] GMAP
Comments
Here is teh broker's listing with more photos:
http://www.dhbproperties.com/Photos-2.html
Posted by: BedStuyGuy at June 20, 2006 11:54 AM
The gmap link is entirely wrong.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 12:00 PM
this is by far one of the best blocks in Brookyln. and, you can still park your car easily!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 12:13 PM
How is car parking space the sole criteria for what makes a "best block" !?!
Factors that could be judged for what makes a block 'good' include:
Proximity to subway
Proximity to stores (grocery, bakery, restaurants, dry cleaner's, etc.)
Curb appeal of the block (ex: trees, other building, historic landmarking, etc.)
School District
Noise level/activity on block
Crime rate in the area
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 12:25 PM
he/she said "and" you can park easily...
Posted by: Brownstoner at June 20, 2006 12:30 PM
Well then Anon 12:13 PM explain just what makes it a "best block" BESIDES the parking.
Or are we supposed to just take Anon 12:13 PM declaration that it's 'best' as gospel?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 12:36 PM
lay off the caffeine dude.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 12:51 PM
You can still park easily (NYC-relevant) in Clinton Hill so that 12:13 comment is not even worthy of a response. Building looks like it's in excellent shape but 1.235 for Bed Stuy 2-fam? I don't know. Time will tell.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 12:54 PM
One of the posters declared his/her measurements for 'best block' status. Well, here is a fairly objective response to those measurements:
Proximity to subway: Two blocks from the Utica 'A'/'C' stop. Express train gets you to Manhattan about 10 minutes quicker than the sporadic 'C' at Clinton/Washington.
Proximity to stores (grocery, bakery, restaurants, dry cleaner's, etc.) Bred Stuy is a wonderful coffee shop/bakery on Lewis, but other than that services are fairly poor. There is a very good Food Town with surprisingly fresh produce about eight blocks away on Fulton. There are plenty of absurdly overpriced dry cleaners and laundromats in the area. It's pretty sad that one has to transport his/her laundry to Manhattan to get a decent deal.
Curb appeal of the block (ex: trees, other building, historic landmarking, etc.) All of the blocks (Bainbridge, Decatur, McDonough, Macon, Hancock, Halsey, Jefferson) between Lewis and Stuyvesant rival anything that Clinton Hill has to offer. These blocks are continually in the running for Most Green Block in Brooklyn competitions.
School District - Is there a good one anywhere in NYC?
Noise level/activity on block Very quiet block - no question.
Crime rate in the area The 81st is not the best precinct in the city in terms of crime rates. But, the police are visible without being intrusive. There are random reports of kids causing problems in Fulton Park and the arteries that lead from the subway into Stuy Heights/Bed Stuy. Every now and then there is some low level drug activity in the area. But, it doesn't seem that the neighborhood has been plagued with some of the recent gun activity that has been reported in surrounding neighborhoods.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 1:11 PM
"School District - Is there a good one anywhere in NYC?"
Huh? Are you serious?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 1:15 PM
12:25-- EXCELLENT LIST OF CRITERIA! I think Bstoner should codify it and we should all refer to it as we comment on listings.
Based on 1:11's response to the list, it's clear that while this may be one of prettiest and greenest blocks, it isn't one of the best. I know that 1.25M doesn't get much anymore, but still it seems steep for the area.
However, I well recall the post someone wrote in the last discussion of a Stuy Hghts house explaining the area's unigue appeal for upper middle class blacks. From that perspective, it may well be worth the price. But not for me.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 1:22 PM
It only takes me a little under 10 minutes of riding the C train from clinton washington to get to broadway nassau. I work near Wall Street. Door to door (house to office) is 20 mins. Not sure how the Utica A train can take 10 minutes off the C train trip when it is only a 10 minute or so train ride to begin with.
But, yes, A trains are generally quicker, but it is not a big difference if you work downtown.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 1:23 PM
It looks beautiful. My only gripe is it looks like a lot of woodwork was stripped completely but not stained. I've seen the same woodwork in other bed stuy houses on Hancock and they had a great old dark stain/petina.
That is not really material though considering the great shape it looks to be in. It's easier to address than painted woodwork.
Posted by: lp at June 20, 2006 1:25 PM
First, it's Stuyvesant Heights (landmark historic district) not Bed-Stuy. Second, a limestone around the corner on Stuvyesant Avenue sold for $1.2m and it did not have this much detail or even a decent kitchen and bath. This property is in much better shape. It will probably sell for $1.2m. Steps away from the train station and on an excellent block, e.g., well maintained beautiful large brownstones, tree lined block, landmarked, great neighbors, etc.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 1:26 PM
Beautiful
Posted by: new bed stuy at June 20, 2006 1:26 PM
You guys are so touchy and defensive. The poster Anon 12:13 was merely saying that in their opinion it was one of the best blocks. (<-- period, full stop, end of sentence!) Then they suggest that you can also park your car easily also. They weren't saying that because you can park your car that this makes this block one of the best blocks. Like the poster above said, layoff the caffeine!
Posted by: Freeform at June 20, 2006 1:27 PM
I think it's a pretty valid to question to ask if there is a good school district in nyc, at least that's how it feels. I can only think of three public schools in brooklyn that are regularly touted as great, and the houses near them are a pretty penny. many parents can't afford to buy a home within the couple of good districts that exist, and we just have to try and work the system to get our kids in schools we feel good about.
Posted by: Drew at June 20, 2006 1:33 PM
Will the endless CH/BS wrangling ever end? It is so exhausting. I've lived in both nabes, and they both have wonderful qualities and much to recommned them. Yes, it is natural to compare, contrast, and generally prefer your own area. But ridiculously insecure comments like, "You can still park easily (NYC-relevant) in Clinton Hill so that 12:13 comment is not even worthy of a response" are so pointless. The original poster was not saying, "Move to BS, you can't park worth a damn in Clinton Hill." And, he/she wasn't actually looking for a response!! Just stating a perceived truth.
Anyway, wow, this house is beautiful. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Posted by: ana at June 20, 2006 1:33 PM
Anon 01:26
Stuyvesant Heights is a smaller part of BedfordStuyvesant that is landmarked. But it's Bedstuy! Smiliar to how Hamilton heights or Morningside is to Harlem.
Posted by: Freeform at June 20, 2006 1:44 PM
i'm confused...are they paying me $1.2MM to live in Bed-Stuy. And for all you who want to say its Stuyvesant Heights, you can call it what you want, but it's Bed-Stuy and always has been.
Posted by: anon at June 20, 2006 2:06 PM
I think this place looks great. I'm the biggest cheerleader for the stuy but prices like this alarm me they seem to be moving too fast in terms of price which I suppose compensates for years of underpricing. anyway, bainbridge is a nice block, its close to the train and as far as the ride my bf works off broadway nassau and it takes him 20 min to get to work from the utica stop on the A train, there's only 4 stops between utica and broadway so it makes since that it would take the same amount of time if not less than the C from clinton washington. there are also a lot of cute little shops on lewis. there's a church on the corner of decatur and lewis and bredstuy on lewis between decatur and macdonough and brownstone books next to it. I love my neighborhood but 1.23? sheesh. its not that I don't think it will sell at this price or that its not even worth it but where are these prices going to go eventually? I feel like everyone will be priced out very soon.
Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie. at June 20, 2006 2:13 PM
it's a gorgeous block and house from what i can tell. i just don't see how they arrive at that price. it seems steep to me. i live nearby so it's good for my property value, but i worry about specultion and like someone else said pricing people out. where can people go now?
Posted by: pietro at June 20, 2006 2:25 PM
I am repeating myself from a post some time back, but I am still in shock.
I tried to buy the $1.25M limestone around the corner for $450K in 2001 and the bank wouldn't finance it because they said I was paying too much for the area. Sigh...
Posted by: Dan at June 20, 2006 2:30 PM
Dan @ 2:30 p.m. - how much were you putting down on the $450K price? Wouldn't the bank only want the house to value what they are loaning to you?
Posted by: Julie B at June 20, 2006 2:48 PM
I think I'm going to start to simply ignore ignorant comments from now on, no matter how difficult it may be.
I'm not too far from Stuy-Hgts.(on putnam) But I still know that it is Still Bed-Stuy. And as much as I would love for someone to value my house at $1.2 million, it's doubtful.
Let's break it down to dollars and sense. Assuming someone buys this place for $1.2M, puts the 20% down to avoid PMI ($240K), Gets a $960K, 30yr fixed Mortgage @ 6%.....(which is also doubtful today)
That's a $6,000 monthly mtge pymnt. And assuming they can rent out the garden for $2,000, they're still looking at $4,000 a month and haven't even paid taxes or insurance yet.
You think thats not over-priced in this hood?
Other than that, it's a beautiful house on a beautiful block.
Posted by: NewStoner at June 20, 2006 3:01 PM
I pay about $5,000 a month in Stuy Heights for a single family. I live in a beautiful house (5,000 sq. ft and loaded with details) on a premier block. I love my home and neighbors. I can afford to live anywhere else in Brooklyn but Stuyvesant Heights is where I decided to call home. Needless to say, I'm very very happy. No complaints whatsoever. Different strokes for different folks. It's a personal decision and is not merely dictated by the size of your pocketbook.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 3:20 PM
RE: Freeform at June 20, 2006 01:44 PM
Well having lived in BKLYN all my life I remember not so long ago when people like you said Fort Greene? Clinton Hills? never. How soon we forget.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 3:30 PM
Clinton Hill is part of Bed/Stuy, too. So, what? Bed/Stuy is a huge neighborhood that has some good areas and some not-so-good areas.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 3:32 PM
Anon 3:20
would you pay $1.2 Million to live there now? I don't think anyone is saying Stuy-Hgts isn't a good place to live, but for that much money... maybe you could afford to buy a place that has an affordable cleaners on the corner and a subway station not too far away.
By the way.. I'm Do-or-Die Bed-Stuy for LIFE!!!
But I can't afford $1.2 Mill
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 3:38 PM
FYI JUST SOLD & CLOSED - $1,175,000. 416 Stuyvesant Ave, $975,000. 140 Bainbridge. Should I list more!!!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 3:49 PM
If you specifically want to live in an attractive, middle-class black area, this makes sense. Otherwise, no way. I don't care how much origianl detail it has, 1.23M to live in a part of bed-stuy is not how I'd spend my money.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 3:49 PM
hahaha thats so true, the cleaners on the corner of stuyvesant and macdonough is high way robbery.
Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie. at June 20, 2006 3:51 PM
honestly I wouldn't really classify stuyvesant heights as "middle-class black area" I've found that there are just as many older people who've owned these homes for years before they were valued as there are people of color who are middle class and people who were priced of other areas they considered more desirable.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 4:00 PM
Anon 4:00, the definition of middle class in the black community is different than it is for whites. I know many white trustafarians that consider themselves middle class, but they would be considered solidly upper class if they were black. In this community, working class is middle class. It has as much to do with lifestyle, (property owners, business owners, some disposable income, college educated, etc.) as it does with the actual amount of money you have.
Posted by: Oh Lord! at June 20, 2006 4:07 PM
"Clinton Hill is part of Bed/Stuy, too"
Huh, what!?! They are separate sections, next to each other.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/gif/neighbor/neighl.gif
And even more separate when you start talking LPC districts:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/maps/clinton_hill.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/maps/stuyvesant_heights.pdf
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 4:32 PM
According to the crime stats, the number of murders (half-way through 2006) equal the same amount as 2005 (Whole year). Rape is 183% up. The projected robbery (And we have yet to enter the summer) will be 296 as opposed to 161 for the entire 05 year.
Felony assault and larceny, up and up.
WTF, neighborhood stats are important, and yes there are excellent school districts in NYC. If we were as blind as the one who questioned the quality in our schools, we'd all be irresponsible parents
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 4:44 PM
As far as I'm concerned, middle class is middle class. Black or White. That's like saying black has a different poverty line as white does. It's crazy.. and the Bottom line is ... Can you afford $6,000 a month ($72,000) for a house? and if you Can, you are Clearly in the MIDDLE CLASS. Because if you can spend $72,000 a year on a mortgage, you've got to be making MORE THAN THAT a year.
And I doubt anyone making more than $72,000 can say they are NOT at the very least Middle Class.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 4:54 PM
Seriously. Where do you send kids to school in Bed-Stuy/Stuy Heights?
Please don't say St. Anne's, Spence or lying your way into PS 321. Taking my kids on the subway to school everyday isn't worth the golden oak filligree.
The more a think about it, the more seems like you have to be a stay-at-home mom or dad in order to make it work in these communities.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 5:02 PM
Seriously. Where do you send kids to school in Bed-Stuy/Stuy Heights?
Please don't say St. Anne's, Spence or lieing your way into PS 321. Taking my kids on the subway to school everyday isn't worth the golden oak filligree.
The more a think about it, the more seems like you have to be a stay-at-home mom or dad in order to make it work in these communities.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 5:03 PM
Here's a question: Just because a house has original details from say 1899, is the detail considered beautiful just because it exists? There are existing details that I love, which feel right regardless of time/era. And then there's just atrociously ugly woodwork that creeps me out, like the stuff in this house. I know y'all are loving it, but my god, am I crazy for absolutely hating it and think it kitschy beyond redemption? It's like one of those Bavarian theme restaurants or something.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 5:06 PM
Anon 4:44 you are reading the numbers wrong. 161 is not robberies for the entire year, it is comparing YTDs from last year and this year. For complete numbers from 2005, you have to look at the bottom graphic. The stats are higher than anyone would like (as I'm sure is true in any neighborhood), but they are not "up and up."
Posted by: ana at June 20, 2006 5:08 PM
Oh Lord! - I posted the initial comment about not considering this area black middle class and I must disagree with your comment. what is considered middle class and what is really middle class are sometimes completely different as you yourself pointed out. the threshold of class shouldn't be based on race. I agree with the poster regarding the poverty line. it is what it is, the poverty line is just that and its not one thing for blacks and one thing for whites if you're below it you're considered inpoverished. yes, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that the amount of money that flies in the "black community" may not go as far in the "white community" (for oversimplification purposes) a la bedstuy vs. park slope or harlem vs uws but that has nothing to do with whether or not you're middle class. I live in stuy heights and the lady who lives next door to me is an old lady of about 70 who has owned her brownstone for years, for all purposes she's dirt poor as far as cash and filthy rich as far as property but she wasn't put in that situation because she was middle class she moved there when bedstuy was a place for people who were dirt poor in terms of cash and it just so happens that the neighborhood is seeing a turn around in her favor. many of the homeowners in the area are like that and that's what I meant by I wouldn't consider the area middle class.
Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie. at June 20, 2006 5:10 PM
Nothing inherently aesthetically pleasing about it except the amount of craft that went into it. These were details that fit the style of the era. Not necessarily beautiful, just trendy at the time, for the developer who built that particular block, like poggen pohl kitchens today. That's what people showed off with to their friends.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 5:10 PM
as far as the comment about schools I brought this up a few days ago when we were discussing a property in flatbush. you pose the question where do people's children go who live in these areas? where do "regular" kids go to school anyway? because it seems like such a far fetched idea sometimes that everyone isn't white and wealthy enough to send their kids to brooklyn friends. we get it ps 321 is a good school hoorah but some people can't afford to live over there and their kids still have to go to school. some people work hard to give their kids the best that they can give and living in a house like this may just be it. NO they don't have to be a stay at home mom or dad to make something like this work because thats totally unrealistic in the real world when one parent isn't wealthy enough to support the other or "communities like this" as you'd put it children catch the subway to school by themselves they don't have martha steward living-esque moms to skip to the bus stop with them or chauffuer them to school in the range but they do have parents who care enough for them to provide them the best within their means. get over yourselves.
Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie. at June 20, 2006 5:19 PM
Stuy Blkbuttrlie,
You are looking at the comments wrong. The issue is about who can afford that house, not who lives next door. And that little old lady that lives next door to you, while she herself may not be middle class, she is indeed living in a middle class house. To that point, another little old lady identical to your neighbor would not be able to move INTO that neighborhood TODAY. Hence, the point that you must be no LESS than middle class to get in is Valid.
So Middle Class is Middle Class... Black or white! A dollar goes the same distance, no matter what color the hand that's passing it along.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 5:51 PM
I don't have kids, so I'm alittle naive when it comes to schools. What happens when it comes time for middle school and high school? Isn't that important also? Somehow, I don't think any of you Park Slope parents are sending your kids to John Jay. Anyway, as 3:49 posted...homes are indeed selling in this area for some decent $, so it's worth it to someone. Let's see...a 4300 sq ft beauty in a beautiful, convenient neighborhood or a small vinyl sided frame in a "good" area. It's a no brainer for me!
Posted by: Yente at June 20, 2006 6:17 PM
A note on the Clinton Hill/Bed-Stuy boundary issue. I recently met a woman that was raised on Cambridge Place in the 50's. Now considered solidly Clinton Hill, she says back then it was Bedford-Stuyvesant.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 6:47 PM
Hey someone called me blind! So where are all the "excellent" school districts in nyc? It's easy to say they exist, but I'd rather you name 'em. My point was that one might as well not pick their neighborhood based on the local schools because the good public schools are so few and far between that your house search will be quite limited.
Also, my guess is that the person who buys this house will not only put down 10%, so I doubt they will have a $4,000 mortgage payment. Crime statistics are only as informative as the context of the crimes. I'd much rather speak to residents and hang out myself than rely on police stats. And yeah most of what the new residents call Clinton Hill was considered B-Stuy for quite some time, and only the new residents have this obsession with their home falling on the CH side of the boundary. And Stuy Heights is quite distinct in look and feel despite "still being Bed Stuy."
Lastly, if you don't want the house for whatever it's being sold for, then don't fuckin buy it. You don't have to make some snide, latently racist little comment.
Posted by: Drew at June 20, 2006 7:07 PM
Very interesting debate on original detail, patina, etc. Sorry, lp, I disagree with you and completely agree with Anon 5:10. I often wonder if I am the only one who does not drool at the site of brownstones drenched in darkly varnished casings, mantles, mirrors, etc.
I have no interest in living in a museum, or feeling that there is no wall space to place furniture, lest I cover the precious period detail. Call me crazy, but I often prefer mouldings painted white, so that I do not have to figure out how to get paint to stick to 100-year old varnish, or worse yet, strip the gunk and false patina (yes, pine and oak can be made to look like mahogany given the right helping of stain and varnish).
I know from experience how taxing this work can be and appreciate the effort owners put into removing that varnish the pretensiously masks the beauty of the wood, implying that it need masquerade as another, more noble species. Nothing against patina, by the way, which normal stripping does not remove.
Give me bright, cheerful woodwork that shows the grain and reflects at least some light. I am sick of renovations that blatantly and sloppily apply stain to achieve this pretensious old-world "charm". 'Nuf.
Posted by: dru at June 20, 2006 7:09 PM
I don't get the schools issue. Parents in BS do the same thing that parents in PS do. You look at all of the choices (public, private, parochial) and you choose the school that best fits your kid and your means. That may be a public school or it may not. It may mean that your kid gets on the subway and schleps to another part of Brooklyn or Manhattan or the Bronx or Queens or that they walk around the corner. New York is one of those places where geography does not limit your options. Plenty of kids in Brooklyn take public transportation to school. Its just not that big of a deal.
Posted by: Oh Lord! at June 20, 2006 7:13 PM
Correction: It was Anon 5:06 that gets my vote. Sorry, 5:10.
Posted by: dru at June 20, 2006 7:14 PM
Any kids whose parents spend 1.25M for a house should deserve private education.
Tuition are only 30K/year.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 7:57 PM
Anon 3.30pm
I lived in Bedstuy for over 10 years now, in fact I'm no where close to FG or CH, I have a couple investments there but I live deeper in Bedstuy, close to Bushwick. So whatchu sayin'?
Posted by: Freeform at June 20, 2006 8:11 PM
Okay, since I am a Bed-Stuy parent, here's my 2 cents about the school issue: we're sending our kid to a preschool in Midwood. Pros: it's a great school which happens to be considerably cheaper than the preschools in PS, FG, Boerum Hill, etc. Cons: we have to hop in the car to get there. But since that's what 99% of people in America do anyway (outside of NYC), I don't consider that a dealbreaker.
We're not sure what we'll be doing after preschool, but I imagine we'll figure something out. None of the Bklyn parents I know are in PS 321, but they manage to educate their children nevertheless.
Posted by: anonymous at June 20, 2006 8:59 PM
okay anon @ 5:51 I get your point but I always assumed that it was a combination of the value and the people if not only the people that allows you to categorize a neighborhood as middle class. sure, you're right the lady that lives next to me lives in a middle class home but she's not middle class so which is correct? this lady is scraping pennies to buy milk I wouldn't dare call her middle class. if someone bought her house from her for a million dollars and had the type of income to support that purchase they may be considered middle class. thats the point I'm trying to make. the people in stuy heights are prodominately middle class in my experience but I'll buy the arguement that the properties are, if possible.
Posted by: stuy blkbuttrflie at June 20, 2006 9:03 PM
this site has become Fame Trackers for houses in Bklyn....it's effing Bklyn, people! at least dishing on slebs was way more fun than dishing subway stops and PS whatever.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 9:33 PM
My apologies for the intrusion, I’m just visiting the site at a friend's request to look at pictures of brownstones. However, I became interested in the discussion about public schools. As a teacher in a troubled district, I know that the best way to turn a school around is to get parents involved in what happens in the school. Sadly, parents who send their children to public schools that people with money avoid are unable to be as active as a struggling school needs, and usually it is not because they do not care, they simply have other obstacles that they must contend with.
My point-- you have the power to turn a school around, especially if you are putting money into a community. It would be a rewarding experience for children of all economic backgrounds because children see beyond the things that adults come to believe are important. If you're willing to spend 30K on a private education, put it into a school library or a program or a good music teacher in a school right around the corner. Spence may look good on a college resume, but helping a neighborhood school will get more kids to where they need to go in order to be successful in life.
If you want safer neighborhoods, if you want a 5000 dollar mortgage to make sense, you have to put the money into the schools in your neighborhood. It’s your right to demand a quality public education for your child no matter how much money you make. You just have to be obnoxious enough to demand change. One family can not do it, but many can. For inspiration, spend a day in one of these schools. You might not like everything you see, but I guarantee you, you’ll see kids who deserve the same education as your children. Once again, I’m sorry for the intrusion and the oversimplification of a very serious issue.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 10:11 PM
Amen, Anon teacher 10:11. I wondered if anyone was ever going to say what you did so eloquently. Since I don't have kids, I'm often reticent to comment on where people should send their kids, because I have mixed feelings on the issue. But my mother was a public and parochial school teacher, and my aunt is a public special ed teacher, all in NYC and I have heard the gamut of stories for years, both inspirational and horrifying. All kids deserve a good education. Education is the key out of poverty, and the key to an equal footing with anyone in this world.
As to the house, wow, what a beauty. My rental house in BS had that same light fixture, and I always wished I could have taken it with me, but alas, twasn't mine. I personally love all the detail, but would rather people left woodwork alone than slapped glossy poly on it when they want to sell it. My preferences are a nice, real tung oil finish, with perhaps a subtle shellac finish.
Anyway, if all of that detail is not your cup of tea, then this isn't your house to be, nuff said. For the rest of you, this is one of the nicest blocks in Bed Stuy, and the house looks like a fine home. Is it too much money? You bet, and doesn't help to stabilize the market in the area. That said, it does seem to be a special house, and who knows, it may be worth the money to someone for whom it is the perfect house.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 20, 2006 10:40 PM
My daughter and I have taken the C train from Clinton Washington to Chinatown for school since she started daycare, and she's in 4th grade now. Every day there are lots and lots of kids and their parents going to school on the subway. However, until middle school (6th grade, 11-12 y.o.) kids usually travel with an adult. Sure it's a hassle but it's worth it to me and she's at a great school.
As we approach middle school, it happens that there's a decent one in Ft. Greene (113) so maybe she'll be able to get off the train. And I would be very happy for her to go to Brooklyn Tech.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 10:54 PM
A couple of comments:
Drew, your standards are obviously low. We get it, now get over yourself.
As for the comment about the old lady next door being middle-class, I beg to differ. I mean, that person probably didn't shell out over $1m to purchase her home (Are you aware what SS is paying thee days?), but her home has obvious potential to make her middle-class if she sells it. That person might have purchased their property over 30 years ago for less than $50k when this hood was the slums of NY. These properties, in this section of Brooklyn, were fetching no more than $125k 10 years ago. That was when the blue collared person could also afford to buy a home.
I had an interesting conversation with a bus driver (Probably in his mid 50's) who mentioned that he purchased his two homes in Queens for a combined price of $175k 20 years ago. He sold one for almost triple the amount. At his salary today, he couldn't afford to rent in PS for his wife and himself, let alone purchase anything.
I think realestate in parts of NYC are over-priced and should lower the expectations of the asking price. This house is obvioulsy $800k overpriced based on location alone.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 11:45 PM
I love the house and while I do understand there are many people who don't care for that amount of detail, I would hope anyone who buys it would not strip it out or "modernize" it. I have to agree with lp (I'd even accept white curtains :-), lp) that the woodwork does look stripped and odd, but I'm not crazy about woodwork that's too dark. I don't mind painted woodwork either- lots of periods painted theirs and Victorian interior design was far more colorful than we are led to believe from the artifacts we see today. But it was also a far cry from the modern interpretation of shiny satin and poly lace that so many people think is Victorian.
Anon at 10:11- beautifully said.
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at June 21, 2006 2:03 AM
Wow. In not such a good way. I love turn of the century woodwork as much as anyone, but that's just way over the top. Probably would have been considered gauche when it was built, too. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's tasteful... Too much for me.
Posted by: mikros at June 21, 2006 9:27 AM
"I don't care how much original detail it has, 1.23M to live in a part of bed-stuy is not how I'd spend my money."
First, this is SH not BS the same way that CH is not BS. Despite the fact that all three BLACK neighborhoods have been called Bed-Stuy in the past, they are indeed three distinct separate neighborhoods, irrespective of its common denominator - RACE.
Second, why would someone pay this much to live in Stuyvesant Heights? Well I recently paid $1mm for a house in Stuyvesant Heights and plan to spend another $200,000 to renovate the kitchen and baths to my specifications. It's a beautiful limestone and well over 5,000 sq. ft. on the best block. I own a few investment properties in FG and Clinton Hill and considered those areas along with PS, BH and CG. However, I wanted to settle into a large single family house and not deal with tenants on this specific investment. At the time of my purchase, the SH property was by far the best property on the market. I was not interested in a $1M+ condo in BH or PS because apartment living is simply not my preference. I also determined that for the $3M-$5M it would cost to buy a similar single family property in PS or BH I'd rather live in Saddle River, Bernardsville, New Canaan or Brookville. So at $1-$1.5M I was looking for value and a nice home in Brooklyn or moving out to the suburbs and spending justifiably much more.
In SH I got excellent value for my money. The mortgage is very manageable and the way I see it I'm sending my kids to private school anyway, whether I live in SH, BH or PS. In my opinion, I'm saving about $3,000 a month by living in SH as opposed to these other communities; money that can be spent on other investments, family vacations and private school education for my children. I am looking forward to moving into this neighborhood in '07. It's in awesome community and I have a great house.
Anonymous, you simply don't like Stuyvesant Heights for reasons that are very important to you. I beg to differ. But so what? That's neither here nor there. Everyone works hard for their money and like yourself are entitled to spend it the way that they see fit. But please stop bashing people who choose to live in this excellent community. It's our money and our choice! Same goes for people who decide to live in PLG, FG or CH.
"These properties, in this section of Brooklyn, were fetching no more than $125k 10 years ago." "This house is obviously $800k overpriced based on location alone."
Bro, perhaps you missed the train on the last go around but if you want to keep dreaming, certainly do so. I was buying brownstones in FG ten years ago for $300k. What do you think these homes are worth now? $1.8 if not more. This home is properly discounted because it's not FG or CH.
You think that this house is worth $400k?!? This statement is so insane that it calls your mental stability into question. If you own and presumably you do, please sell me your house in 2006 at mid 1990's prices - I promise to give you fair market value! ;-)
I personally think that this house in Stuy Heights at $1.2M represents good value and an excellent investment opportunity for those who are comfortable with the community and have a long investment time horizon.
With that being said, Bed-Stuy is a huge community and certain sections are seriously overpriced and I hope that prices stabilize as to not prohibit potential buyers from moving into the community. The nabe does need new blood and money and unjustifiable prices do in fact hurt the long term prospect of the community. However, this house is on one of the best blocks in the best section of Stuyvesant Heights. This is not the house to make the "inflated price" argument. Pick another battle. Given the surge in shabby "developer flips" in other sections of BS, the choices are bountiful!
Posted by: BrownBomber at June 21, 2006 9:33 AM
^^^^
what he/she said!!
Except I don't agree that Stuyvesant Heights is seperate from BedfordStuyvesant, that is not official. It's a historic district, yes, but not a new section of Brooklyn.
Posted by: Freeform at June 21, 2006 9:45 AM
BTW
This is one of the best blocks to live on. It's secluded, quiet, and has some of the most beautiful homes I've seen, aside from Macdonough. I remember renting on Macdonough about years ago and always thinking that I would love to live on this block!! For those that speak without truly knowing, you must see to believe!
Posted by: Freeform at June 21, 2006 9:49 AM
great post, BB.
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at June 21, 2006 9:57 AM
1.2 for Stuy High? Yeah, there's still fools out there but this is euphoria at it's best. Common sense is lost.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 11:42 AM
I agree, the biggest loser, I mean, fool is BB.
No excuse can exer rationalize this price in this shady hood.
Y not try picking up the tab on this one BB, esp. since you own $300k homes? Do u not have enough equity or do you think it's not worth it?
I'm sure you'll elaborate on this one
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 12:01 PM
Anon 12:01
You sound bitter. what's the matter? Your house not appreciating?
Posted by: Freeform at June 21, 2006 12:51 PM
You sound defensive anon 12:51. What's the matter, does the truth hurt?
Save the defense for someone not familiar with this slum hood
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 1:56 PM
Does the truth hurt about what? Their was a similar house featured on brownstoner that sold for the same thing, so what are you quarrelling about?
Posted by: Freeform at June 21, 2006 2:08 PM
Freeform and BB, don't argue with this fool....ahhh...I mean Anonymous. He's clearly trolling or is as dumb as they come. For Christ's sake, he's waiting for a 60% correction in the market! Talk about having champagne dreams on a Kool-Aid budget. LOL!
Posted by: Justathought at June 21, 2006 2:13 PM
Just a thought is just that, a thought.
I've been reading your poor pathetic defense of a hood that is crime infested and has about the same public transportation as Baghdad (The crime can also be synonymous).
So spare us with your condescending comments, esp. when you're not a home owner
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 2:18 PM
FF 2:08, if brownstoner dived off a bridge would you follow?
Don't assume that it's all relative when some desperate uninformed idiot purchases a property for a price that is completely and apparently 2x of what it really should be selling for.
This house is clearly $500k and not a cent more
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 2:22 PM
Anon 10:11, the comment about taking funds away from a private education and investing it into a suffering school district is as synonymous as burning that tuition money.
I mean let's all get real and realize that the reason for school districts suffering are the non-involved parent. The non-involved that are too busy or too tired to break up their routine and constantly make the pedagogy the reason for their childs poor education.
No matter how much you want to believe that a few $ will help, it's just an idealists' fantasy. All low-income parents lack the comprehension that what you do and what you say will rub off on your child.
I have witnessed, on my morning walks to work, some parents dropping off their kids at a school yard and not interacting with the other parents. Some have chips on their shoulders, but all they have a civil servant job and a bunch of food stamps in their drawers.
The parent who puts there own private time ahead of their childs is a loser. Not only personally, but socially, as this domino effect affects the entire district.
Thanks but no thanks, i'll be sending my kids to private school and avoid the public school yard ineptness.
I vote for no private funding and bring vouchers back, as my taxes are a big waste in these slum hoods
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 2:47 PM
The entire city of NY would be out of debt if Kings County would be removed.
In particular, BS, CH (Crown Heights), Brownsville, ENY, etc.
One giant mosquito sucking all of our tax $
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 2:50 PM
Brownstoner, are all of these inane comments from one person? Is there really no way to block them? They are ridiculous, annoying, and utterly pointless.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 3:05 PM
Anon 3:05, your comment is ridiculous, annoying and pointless, as you fear the truth
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 3:16 PM
It still amazes me completely, that people can try and act like Cyber tough guys. To try and say the house is worth $500K could be just as crazy as saying it's worth $1.23.
If you don't want to pay $1.23 then fine, don't. But do you have to take a dump on the entire hood, just because YOU don't want to live there? I think it very well COULD be worth $1.2, but I just wouldn't be able to do it. Me.. Personally.. I just recently moved in to the neighborhood, thankfully a year ago, so I didn't have to pay that extra premium that was associated with the tail end of the real estate boom.
So if I were trying to buy today, in Stuy Heights, sadly, I'd be priced out.
But I wouldn't compare Bainbridge to any block in E. New York.
Good Grief!!
Posted by: NewStoner at June 21, 2006 3:29 PM
I see the moron troll who picks fights in PLG, BS, and CH has roused him/her self from his/her mossy bed in the basement, and shuffled over to the computer to spill yet more bile and vitriole at the decent people who try to have an intelligent conversation here.
I have to believe that this is true, because that the person or persons who spews forth such insulting nonsense as "I've been reading your poor pathetic defense of a hood that is crime infested and has about the same public transportation as Baghdad (The crime can also be synonymous)", and the crap about the parents of inner city school kids, is either writing to get a negative affect or is one sick mofo. It really gets tiresome. There are ligitimate issues about pricing, housing stock, even quality of life, to be discussed, without some nut job thowing gasoline on the fire.
BrownBomber, you eloquently made some really good points. I don't agree that Stuy Heights is a separate nabe, but that is not worth quibbling about. I'm glad you are investing in the long term future of the neighborhood, and I'm sure your house is great. None of you proud residents of any part of BS should feel you have to continuously have to defend the neighborhood, or your homes, and the choices that brought you to them. Keep on keepin on.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 21, 2006 4:02 PM
If all this is true, the asking price of $1,235,000 seems a little lower than we would have expected. What say ye?
That's what this thread asked.
Now what's crazy about my comment.
What say ye, and I shall respond. If you don't like the response, don't act like it's a personal comment toward you, and move on. I'm qualified to make a comment about the ridiculous price of this home as you are (Maybe not) in response to my comments.
Defending BS and it's obnoxious prices is a defense to pacify the overpayment you made to purchase your money pit
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 4:03 PM
Here we go again, the litigator, Ms. CHP, is back to defend the slums of Brooklyn. She's obviously in denial about the crime and school stats or else she'd defend my point of view.
If I'm paying $1.23M for a home it sure isn't an attached old relic where it needs constant maintanence. I'm paying this $ amount in a hood where the crime and schools are decent. Walk down to the nearest precinct (Natives are welcome) and act like you're interested in buying a home and ask about the hood. I bet the hair in the back of your necks will rise after what the PO will tell you. Go ahead and prove me wrong, I'll be waiting your comments. But until then, I suggest you stop attacking me with your baseless and childish remarks
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 4:10 PM
...............
So I heard the weather is suppose to be absolutely beautiful the rest of the week, anyone going out to the park?
Posted by: Freeform at June 21, 2006 4:32 PM
Hey, 4:10, I recognize your unique, albeit, hateful style. You are the "Saviour of Crown Heights", who argued that you were doing that nabe a favor by buying it up and renting to "the Natives". I find it hard to understand why someone who seems to hate us "Natives" so much, is spending so much time and money in our various hoods. Methinks your objection to various posters' love of their neighborhoods, and willingness to spend big bucks in said hood, signifies your frustration in the rising prices, and the "Natives'" unwillingness to part with what is now very prime real estate.
You can quote all the crime stats you want to. You can tell us we're all certifiably crazy for wanting to live here, you can throw hate and bigotry and "Natives" around till the next Aryan Nation meeting, but the good people who make these worthy areas our homes are not going to cave in to the likes of you. You may as well call it a day, and go home. We are home, and are quite proud of it, and mean to stay.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 21, 2006 4:32 PM
How about those Mets? Top of the division, feels like 86' all over again.
Posted by: Freeform at June 21, 2006 4:34 PM
I think it's pretty much what Newstoner and CHP have said- if you don't want to live in a neighborhood, fine- don't. But why dump on the neighborhood and those that love it? Why insist they are in denial or "Defending BS and it's obnoxious prices is a defense to pacify the overpayment you made to purchase your money pit?" People like anon 2:17 and 4:03 & 4:10 are not really about discussion or facts. They are about slinging mud. And anon 4:10- the use of the word "Natives" is both obnoxious and childish. Anon 2:47- you wrote "All low-income parents lack the comprehension that what you do and what you say will rub off on your child.
I have witnessed, on my morning walks to work, some parents dropping off their kids at a school yard and not interacting with the other parents. Some have chips on their shoulders, but all they have a civil servant job and a bunch of food stamps in their drawers."- I have no idea where you get your info from but I guarantee you it is not from first hand experience. Your comment that no low-income parent cares about their kids education is so untrue that I have a difficult time believing anyone with any education or intelligence could say it. Having grown up with "low income" parents who made sure I and my sister went to college, I know for a fact your argument is specious (if you went to college you'll know that word) and erroneous (oooh- another big word for you.) Since you don't seem to suffer overmuch from the constraints of logic or fact it really doesn't pay to argue with you. Send your kids to private school-please!- if they have the same attitude as their parent, they surely are no asset to their class.
Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at June 21, 2006 4:39 PM
You're right BB, I will be sending my children to private school, as opposed to the public school circus that you've grown to live with.
The neighborhood this house sits on is statistically low in every aspect. And arguing this statement epitomizes your frustration of having lived amongst the undesireables that have been outcast in this hood for years.
Good riddance to you all. This subject is obviously too personal for all of you to admit that the house is overpriced and located in the bowels of the city
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 4:58 PM
Why is it impossible for some people to simply say, "this neighborhood isn't for me" or even, "NYC public schools are not for me, or my kids"? Most rational people, whether they agree with you or not, would have no problem saying you are entitled to your opinions, as are those who disagree.
Why must any discussion of Bed Stuy, Crown Heights or Prospect Lefferts Gardens deteriorate so rapidly. It's always the same: if you defend your choices in living in your neighborhood, you are labelled as crazy, deluded, complacent, and somehow condoning of all of the ills of each nabe. Not only that, you are somehow dangerous, because your love of your neighborhood is seen as threatening to other people, and other neigborhoods. I have never seen anyone, and I repeat, ANYONE, who live in and loves these nabes, ever say that they were perfect, and didn't have serious social problems going on. NO ONE ever said there is no crime, no problem people, no noise, no quality of life issues. We know about all of these things - WE LIVE HERE! We encounter them every day. Most of the people who are so offended that we are able and willing to spend a lot of money to live in these places don't live there, never have, and (thank God) never will. Fine.
Why always the vitriol? In no other posts do you read where people have the nerve to say things like "lived amongst the undesireables that have been outcast in this hood for years.", "Natives are welcome", and "slum hood", and all that in less than one day.
You don't want to buy here? Don't. You think it's dangerous? Stay away. Prices overinflated? Spend elsewhere. Don't like the "natives"? Don't visit.
No one asked any of you doomsayers to protect everyone else from the big bad hood. Let people make up their own minds. Let those who choose to live here or buy here with intentions of raising families in safety and in gorgeous surroundings do so. Why is that so hard to do?
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 5:26 PM
That was me. So tired of the crap, I forgot to sign in.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 21, 2006 5:29 PM
The problem here is engaging this nut. Please, everyone, cease and desist.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 5:32 PM
Yeah, I'm a nut because I view this part of NYC as the slums.
Wasn't CHP's comment similar to the one I've made: I'm entitled to my opinion.
If anyone's a nut, it's you anon 5:32.
And by the way, may I add your comment was borderline stupid. I take it back, it was uninforming and stupid
Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2006 10:38 PM
if someone pays then the price aint too high. hate the buyer, not the seller. anyway, i've arranged to see the place this weekend, and am looking forward to seeing the home and the neighborhood. i grew up in brooklyn and am currently at the point in life where i am looking to move back to a brownstone in the county of kings. must admit however that i am quite bitter at how i couldn't even come close to affording the limestone i grew up in park slope. lefferts is as close as i can get to the park now and still entertain thoughts of living in a grand brownstone. and this here bstone appears to be a grand one ladies and gents.
Posted by: csk at June 21, 2006 11:21 PM
Anon 10:38.
You feel this part of BK is a slum... Ok... fine. Kewl Wit me. I don't. I actually think it is an AMAZING BLOCK. Beautiful even!! I also feel the price may be a little high. But you know what, I own a Brownstone just a few blocks away. And I think it's safe to say you won't be invited to any of my bbq's in the near future. End of story. I'm sure there are quite a bit more opinionated thoughts you may have, but It's not really that interesting. I think your arguement would hold more water if all the homes in the area were about $150K and this one was priced at $1.2MM, then MAYBE you could say something.
But I think your talent merely lies in insighting RIOTS. and Slick talk!
BX2BK.... Thank YOU for making sense out of this NON-Sense.
Now let me get back to figuring out what appliances to go with in my new kitchen!!!! decision decisions!!!
Posted by: NewStoner at June 22, 2006 10:48 AM
New stoner, please don't respond directly to me if you say you don't care for my comments. Now I'm done with you
Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2006 11:49 AM
I don't care for your comments and I'm directing my comments directly to YOU!
And now I'm Done! :-D
Posted by: NewStoner at June 22, 2006 3:18 PM
Typical child-like response from a less educated BS native
Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2006 4:15 PM
Ooooooooooo. I shudder at your wit.
Posted by: NewStoner at June 22, 2006 4:50 PM
See what I mean. You're proving me right about typical liberal whites who have migrated to Brooklyn, acting like the natives
Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2006 7:11 PM
"If I'm paying $1.23M for a home it sure isn't an attached old relic where it needs constant maintanence."
A perfectly valid point--I can understand that not everyone loves old houses (and, truth be told, maintanence of an antique home CAN be a PITA), BUT why waste your time on a site that's about "an unhealthy obsession with historic Brooklyn brownstones and the neighborhoods and lifestyles they define" if you don't like brownstones?
Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 22, 2006 8:08 PM
So I'm a Liberal White now??
Wow, I wonder what my mom would say to that. Clearly, you are disenfranchised with your own decisions and can find nothing better to do then try and rabble rouse. You are pretty insignificant when it comes to this discussion. Stay on what ever part of town you're on. And the rest of the intelligent folks that wish to have wholesome debate over real estate, Brownstones, and prices can do just that.
I'm sure you've got another witty comeback.. I await with baited breath!
Posted by: NewStoner at June 22, 2006 11:25 PM
NewStoner, having argued with this individual before, I can tell you that you are wasting your time. He is incapable of having an intelligent discourse, as he immediately resorts to childish name calling, and throwing the very insulting term "natives" around like a baseball bat in a small room. He has no point to make, besides his absurd opinion that BS, CH, etc are all slums, and that he is doing us all the great favor of driving that "fact" home, whilst buying up the hood in the name of ethnic cleansing and progress.
This post will, of course, turn his steely eye on me again, but that's fine. He can dish it out, but he certainly can't take it.
Meanwhile, NS, welcome to the hood, and enjoy your new home.
Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 23, 2006 1:51 AM
No Doubt CHP!... Happy to be here!!
Now if I can only get this kitchen Done!!!
Posted by: NewStoner at June 23, 2006 9:35 AM
Spend less time procrastinating NS and more time on your chore. But then again you seem the less motivated type. You are a product of BS
Posted by: Anonymous at June 23, 2006 10:47 AM
No, actually, I'm the product of Nassau County, Long Island. But what do YOU know? And you're right, I'll stop procrastinating and waisting time with the likes of YOU.
Posted by: NewStoner at June 23, 2006 11:25 AM
Wow you have a personality issue as well as being defensive.
Read the comments and you'll see that I directed nothing toward you, but you have towards me.
Nassau County, wasn't that area used for testing pesticides just after WWII. Hmm, I often wondered what the ramifications of that would be, but I guess it removes a certain gene in your gray matter
Posted by: Anonymous at June 23, 2006 11:41 AM
you know what. I think you're pretty pathetic. You clearly were speaking directly to New Stoner, unless NS stands for something else. You clearly just want to argue. And now you're not even coming off as witty as someone had the nerve to give you credit for. NewStoner... Don't waste your time responding to this Troll.
Brooklyn for LIFE!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous at June 23, 2006 3:47 PM
Alright folks, clear the area, NOTHING ELSE TO SEE HERE!!!
Posted by: Freeform at June 23, 2006 4:06 PM
Anon 3:47 is clearly having some sort of relationship with NS.
And by the way, you're a brilliant person when you can identify with my acronyms
Posted by: Anonymous at June 23, 2006 5:12 PM
Anon 5:12
Has anyone identified with you? Loser.
Get a life.
Freeform... you're hillarious
Posted by: Crooklyn's Finest at June 23, 2006 5:47 PM
Crooklyn, that's original.
Now that's hilarious
Posted by: Anonymous at June 23, 2006 11:03 PM
I guess only the "natives" would know that.
Posted by: Anonymous at June 24, 2006 8:37 AM
Nice spelling, I see you're intelligent
Posted by: Anonymous at June 24, 2006 11:29 PM
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