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June 16, 2006

Open House Picks

houseCobble Hill
26 Bergen Street
Prudential Douglas Elliman
Sunday 2-4
$2,375,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseBoerum Hill
123 Nevins Street
Nancy Mckiernan
Sunday 2-4
$1,399,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseCrown Heights
1211 Dean Street
Yvette Braham
Saturday 1-3
$899,999
GMAP P*Shark

houseBushwick
369 Menahan Street
Corcoran
Sunday 11-2
$549,000
GMAP P*Shark

houseProspect Lefferts
237 Empire Boulevard
Alexis Finigan
Sunday 11-2
$525,000
GMAP P*Shark




Posted by Brownstoner at 11:44 AM | Comments (64)
Categories: Open Houses

Comments

For $2.3m, I think I'd like to see what the inside of the house looks like. Obviously they're having the open house, but if it's fully reno'd what's the problem with posting a few pictures?

Posted by: cobblestoner at June 16, 2006 11:58 AM

I'm loving the inside of the Boerum Hill house! I adore the brownstone/farmhouse look--exactly what I want. Relaxed and cool.

Does anyone know what the Dean street side (or front)looks like?

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 12:22 PM

Is it just me or does the Dean Street Crown Heights place seem like an SRO? Anytime I see a brownstone with tons of units I get scared off.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 1:16 PM

I'm surprised by the price of the Nevins street house. It seems out of line with recent sales in the neighborhood which have been more like $1.8-$2.0.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 1:21 PM

Re: ton of units - means rent-regulated so can't really make large space for yourself -as their ad said investor property
Re: Boerum Hill - Dean st side is public school. Sounds like nice price -and corner prop means sunny - and a bit noisier. Am sure you'll get plenty of folks here poo-poo-ing it 'cause of traffic on Dean and too near projects.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 1:28 PM

Yes the Dean locale isn't ideal, but at 1.4M for a very nice looking 3,000 plus square feet it certainly beats the far-flung fringe alternatives.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 1:41 PM

bergen st looks expensive for a bunch of siding.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 1:41 PM

The Bergen St. house was recently renovated renovated. Bought last year (under &1m) and major work done including structural.
Even with high end reno - unless they added sq ft from what shows up on propshark (2880) which certainly is possible - seems pricey ($824sq ft). Although expensive properties nearby - I wouldn't call this primo spot in neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 1:45 PM

Nevins: That's a great location for subway, brownstones, etc., but also noise. Lots o' sirens go down Nevins about once a night into the projects. Hey, it's the city.

That being said - what's the real catch? $1.4M for a 2-family? Where did you hear 3000sqft? Sounds and looks awesome. Someone buy it for me.

Posted by: chuck at June 16, 2006 1:46 PM

It is not 'siding' as in alum or vinyl. Either wood clapboard or hardiplank.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 1:46 PM

Propshark says 3000+ sq ft on Nevins.
18x40 which is a bit less than 3000 so assume must be some extension space.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 2:02 PM

Yeah, I think I'd take Nevins over Bergen. Plus Bergen is right where the Brooklyn Bridge shortcut to Court Street is located (avoiding the left turn off Atlantic Avenue). Plus Nevins looks like a nicer place. I really like the roof.

Posted by: cobblestoner at June 16, 2006 2:15 PM

Nevins looks nice. As an aside, is that Windsor Terrace house on the Nancy Mckiernan site really still available? And did the price drop by a few hundred K? Geez that's been on the market for ever.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 2:17 PM

237 Empire Boulevard is not PLG. That side of Empire would put it in Crown Heights.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 3:09 PM

OMG - its on the other side of the street. Outrage to call it PLG. Obviously its very different local, demographics, lifestyle etc that goes with the neighborhood your in.
Across the street it is so different.
These realtors. Gotta watch out for them

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 3:41 PM

Actually, I don't know if the north side of Empire is considered to be in PLG or not--I suspect it is, but I'nm really unsure.I never expected to be stumpted by a question like this. Most of Empire is commercial (and rather desolate) but there is that row of houses between Rogers and Nostrand which, I confess, I never really thought about. The pictures look pretty good IMO.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 16, 2006 3:45 PM

Anon. 3:41,

Similar boundaries between many brownstone neighborhoods--Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill (Atlantic Ave.); Park Slope/Prospect Heights (Flatbush Ave.) and so on. Parochial? Maybe, but not unusual. As I said earlier, I'm not sure if BOTH sides of Empire are in PLG or not--since many of these boundaries are rather ambiguous, I'm not sure if there IS an answer.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 16, 2006 3:51 PM

Always thought Empire Blvd was Crown Heights. Besides, even with the setback from the street, we are still talking about an extremely active and noisy thoroughfare. Might be priced correctly, though.

Nevins Street is definitely underpriced. It faces PS 38 on the Dean Street side and there is a fairly nice playground on that block. Wish I could bid on it.

Posted by: crouchback at June 16, 2006 4:37 PM

I don't think Nevins is "underpriced." I'd say it's appropriately priced for a suddenly glutted and extremely sluggish market. No, I do not think the sky is falling, or even cracked. But clearly the market is at a place where if you want your property to move you have to make the price a lot more attractive than you used to. I'll bet this sells for about asking but long before anything else in this round-up.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 5:14 PM

Anon 2:19,

The WT house has been at 750K for at least three months and has been on the market for at least twice that. Not sure what the problem is. Lovingly remodeled, lovely garden, a funny smell in the basement (wonder if others noticed it) a bit small for the price in a market showing signs of softening in more fringes areas.

Perhaps others like myself decided to hold out for more space and better proximity to the Slope and Prospect Park. Bet it would sell at <$700K.

Posted by: dru at June 16, 2006 5:53 PM

the bergen street house is on a mixed use block...the other side of the street is all factory buildings (some awaiting conversion) and boerum place bisects the street. bergen is also wider on this stretch as you get to the light at court. the house my be nice, but this part of bergen street isn't what i'd consider nice.

Posted by: sba at June 16, 2006 8:00 PM

I saw the Empire Blvd house last weekend -- apart from the less-than-great location due to Empire Blvd. traffic, the house itself is a dream inside -- details, space, bedrooms, a great backyard, etc. Step inside and you forget being right on Empire Blvd. If I had young kids I might worry about being on such a busy thoroughfare, but otherwise it seems a great price! And in terms of neighborhood demographics, how is one side of Emprie Boulevard supposed to be so different from the other side -- I prefer these one family houses on this stretch to the gross apartment buildings across the street, on the PLG side! And best of all here, it's right across the street from Toomey's (although this could be seen as a problem if you have a serious mac'n'cheese addiction problem...)!

Posted by: babs at June 16, 2006 9:08 PM

there's nothing to suggest the brownstone brooklyn market is glutted. It's a location issue with the Nevins address, plus we don't know what the condition of the house is like, unless someone has visited and gotten an engineer's report...

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 9:11 PM

Re: Babs' post, here's some pictures of Toomey's diner from Planet PLG:

http://www.planetplg.com/toomeys/

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 16, 2006 10:32 PM

And still more on Toomey's, from "Across the Park":

http://acrossthepark.typepad.com/atp/2006/04/toomeys_fun.html#comments

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 16, 2006 10:36 PM

9:11--nothing to suggest the market is glutted? Well just the glut of listings sitting around not getting sold, that's all. There's far more listings in all areas than there was a few months ago and the average time on the market has about doubled. Seems like a glut to me.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2006 11:09 PM

arghh, the agents repping the bergen street house are the absolute worst. we've had some very unfortunate dealings with them. beware.

Posted by: anonymous at June 16, 2006 11:18 PM

All that was stated was that, that side of Empire Blvd isn't PLG and it isn't. Why anyone is so quick to take exception to that is beyond me. Anon 3:41 & Babs, get over yourselves.

Facts is facts.

Posted by: Nativegal at June 16, 2006 11:28 PM

Hey, Nativegal, no biggie -- all I said was I don't see really a demographic difference between the north and south sides of Empire Blvd. regardless of the neighborhood boundaries. Whatever neighborhood the house is officially in, it's closer to all the stuff in PLG than to Crown Heights places like Brower Park and the Children's Museum, etc. I never even mentioned what neighborhood it was in, I only said that I like this block better than the one across the street. And Bob said he doesn't know the official classification -- and if Bob doesn't know something, than I'm prepared to say it can't be determined! Anybody check out the school zoning here -- zoned for the Crown School could be a plus.

Posted by: babs at June 17, 2006 8:56 AM

The place on Empire Blvd looks nice, I think, but I'd definitely think twice about living in that neighborhood. Very dangerous!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 17, 2006 9:15 AM

Thanks Babs, for writing "And Bob said he doesn't know the official classification -- and if Bob doesn't know something, than I'm prepared to say it can't be determined!" VERY flattering! Actually, I don't know if there's an OFFICIAL designation for many neighborhood boundaries. The PLG name and boundaries were AFAIK made up when PLGNA was founded in 1968. I believe the boundaries only went south to Winthrop at first, but were changed to Clarkson before I moved here in '74. The western boundary was originally Flatbush, but IIRC was extended to Ocean about 30 years ago. Of course Lefferts Manor and the PLG Historic District have discrete "official"boundaries, but they're far from being the whole neighborhood.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 17, 2006 11:14 AM

OK, 9:15, if you're going to make a blanket, inflammatory statement like that, I'd like to see backup. Do you have police stats at least, or any kind of evidence? The house is within shouting distance of the precinct house, on several bus lines, and on a very well travelled street. Noisy, I'll buy. Busy, sure. Dangerous - why?

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 17, 2006 4:39 PM

The Nevins street property does seem under-priced for the neighborhood. Rumor has it another listing halfway down the block on Dean is coming onto the market for $2.2 million. We've lived in the neighborhood for 14 years, and before that in Cobble Hill, and I certainly would not say that sirens blare down the street "once a night" headed for the projects! The Bergen Street house is far more expensive for a less desirable block! Another bright side to Nevins is proximity to PS 38 - great new playground, houses one of three gifted programs in District 15, soon to host an after-school French program serving students from several local public schools, and just hailed by Richard Mills as one of the top 75 most improved schools in NY State.

Posted by: anonymous at June 17, 2006 5:50 PM

Richard Mills is the biggest boob ever produced by the educational establishment...however I happen to agree with him just this once that PS 38 is a really nice school on the rise!

Posted by: Anonymous at June 17, 2006 6:05 PM

Everyone, please note that I did not make the post that appeared at 4:39pm, despite the fact that someone attached my name to it. It was not me.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 17, 2006 6:23 PM

I was born and brought up in Crown Height, went to Wingate and JHS 61 on Empire Blvd. My mother continued to live in my childhood house there until her deaths 3 years ago. I consider myself quite familiar with CH, and know first hand that CH remains difficult at best. By the way, the house on Empire Blvd is of course in CH,and the good news is it is 3 blocks from the 81 Pct. There is still a lot of palpable tension there. I would like to make Ch as pretty as some of the houses, but that would be totally untruthful.

Posted by: bklynbks at June 17, 2006 7:58 PM

Ok, the troll is back. You won't be hearing from me for a while. Comment at
4:39 is me, apology at 6:23 is not. I'm not going to play this time.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 17, 2006 8:28 PM

Strolled past the nevins st place - that corner of nevins seemed pretty busy with traffic. The bergen st place is a IMO a much better location for subway and shops, and not any worse for traffic.

The nevins house itself has an unremarkable street frontage, which is why they don't show it. There is a gate into the high-fenced garden. Just one block south and you're into the projects.

I guess the cheaper price is a result of the location, the corner (getting traffic on two roads) and the layout (1500 sq ft and have to share the garden with the lower tenant). If you look at it as spending $850k for a 2bedroom duplex (rent supports the balance) .. well, it doesn't seem so super.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 17, 2006 9:23 PM

To poster 8:28 PM, Whtehter you want to recognize it or not, almost any place in Cobble Hill or Boerum Hill is within 4-5 blocks from a project. From that standpoint, I don't see much difference between the Bergen St. property (which is 3/1 2 blocks from the Gowanus Houses) and the Nevins/Dean property (which is 2 blocks from Wykoff Gardens). Hard to see the reason to pay a $1.0 milliom premium to Live on Bergen. From an aesthical standpoint, Dean St. is far nicer than that part of Bergen.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 17, 2006 10:52 PM

There is a difference between
(a) having very tall projects 1 block away (as is the case with nevins st - and not the smaller "cuter" wykoff gardens ones either, they are the taller ones I don't know their name)

and

(b) having projects 4-5 blocks away.

Property prices time and again show it to be true. Even if YOU don't care, you have to sell the house one day, and everyone else appears to care.

There is a property on state st I think with a red door, with projects at both ends of the block, that hasn't sold in maybe 6 months despite multiple price drops. This isn't just because of a few unfounded fears of some unhip xenophobic crackers. Projects means loud teens, base heavy car stereos, mamas screaming at odd hours, guys with the pimp roll, more litter, an edgy playground for kids, and yes the odd gunshot or police action. And by the way, I'd say the same if it was a tower block of whites, this isnt a black or hispanic thing - if you pile humanity in very small apartments that they do not own vertically 20 stories high and 5 deep, and they have little prospect for self-improvement, then you get what you get.

Screw this attitude that projects are not a consideration. Sure they will always be somewhere in your neighborhood but given a choice someone putting down $1m+ to own a house prefers grimy post-war brutalism blocks, with all the chaos they contain, do not overlook their back garden. And give a million to anyone in a project to spend on a house and guess what - they are going to have exactly the same attitude.

other than that I agree bergen appears over-priced but it is still a nicer location than nevins, just not $1m nicer.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 17, 2006 11:38 PM

The house the red door is on Warren, not State. It is right up against the tall wykoff gardens. I agree that no one wants to pay $$$ and face the projects. I just think people are fooling themselves if they think that they're safer if they buy on a block that's 2-3 blocks away and doesn't face a project. I've lived in Caroll Gardens or Boerum Hill for 17 years. My guess is that there is more crime on Smith than on either Nevins or Bergen.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 18, 2006 8:12 AM

They're back!--thanks for your intelligent and insiteful comment Rob.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 18, 2006 9:39 PM

The Bergen Street house had awesome wideplank floors and beautiful tin ceilings. The kitchen and bath renos are not my particular taste, but it's a great house nonetheless. The broker (June) was less than friendly and wouldn't answer any of my questions.

Also went to another Elliman property at 306 Union that seemed like a better deal as a legal 4 family with some nice details on an arguably better block and a nicer garden at the same price as the Bergen Street house.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 18, 2006 9:51 PM

For someone on a tight budget, Empire Boulevard is a steal

Posted by: Anonymous at June 19, 2006 12:39 AM

The Nevins street house has a not-so-hot layout -- lots of wasted space and weird winding corridors. There are ways to fix it, but it would cost a lot...hence the price, I guess. Also, most of the detail has been stripped out. I loved the fact that it was a corner, and gets lots of light, but that doesn't make up for the rest of the issues.

Posted by: Maddy at June 19, 2006 10:06 AM

RE Empire Blvd: The idiot who made the gunshot comment obviously has no idea what life in PLG is like.

That said, I wouldn't call the Empire Blvd house a "steal" or "underpriced." The price seems reasonable for a nice house on the edge of a good area but in a not-so-good location. While gunshots is not something to worry about, there are plenty of signifcant downside to the spot.

Posted by: jd at June 19, 2006 10:56 AM

Walked by the Cobble Hill house this weekend. Obviously I haven't seen the inside, but based on location alone if you're looking to move to cobble hill, there are definitely better locations and probably for a similar price. As already said, across the street is not the best, but there are 3 houses just like this one next door, and they're all inhabited. Also, anyone know what school this is zoned for?

Posted by: cobblestoner at June 19, 2006 11:03 AM

Bergen St. is zoned for PS261.
Yes, not tree lined street one pictures of CobbleHill. Its selling point is probably pristine new reno move-in condition.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 19, 2006 12:05 PM

Yes 12:39, for someone on a budget and with a death wish, Empire Blvd would be a good deal. It's an extremely dangerous area, known parochially as "the combat zone".

Posted by: Shane at June 19, 2006 12:20 PM

No comments on the Bushwick property? Been on the market for a while. No investors out there?

Posted by: tony b at June 19, 2006 12:31 PM

FYI. The high-rise (white exterior) projects (complete with parking lots) on Wyckoff Street between 3rd and Nevins is called "Wyckoff Gardens". The projects bounded by Wyckoff, Bond, Butler and Hoyt Streets that features a mixture of low-rise and high-rise buildings and brick exterior as known as Gowanua Houses. Much as I find it a laughable notion, the Gowanus Houses are considered to be one of the better projects (in terms of quality of residents, maintenance and desireability)in Brooklyn by certain folks who work for NYCHA.

Posted by: crouchback at June 19, 2006 1:46 PM

Shane, that doesn't even make sense, even if it wasn't a stupid remark. You obviously don't know the area, and are just trying to stir up trouble. The house is down the street from the huge 81st Precinct house. If nowhere else in the nabe, that house should be quite safe. Combat zone. Yeah, right.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 19, 2006 3:42 PM

Anon.3:42,

71st Precinct house actually, but otherwise you're quite right.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 19, 2006 5:01 PM

You'd think that the proximity of the 71st precinct would make a difference, but Shane is quite right. It is a very hazardous area and extremely violent. Here's hoping that one day they find a way to clean it up.

Posted by: Camilla at June 19, 2006 8:06 PM

Thank you Camilla/Shane--its a wonder that I've survived so long despite all the hazards and violence (of which I obviously have been fecklessly oblivious).
LOL

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 19, 2006 9:27 PM

Oh, please, why even respond to this nonsense? Because, quite simply, it's so wrong. When I walk around in my neighborhood, I feel sometimes like I've fallen into some 21st century version of a Norman Rockwell painting.

What happened to me today, for example? Awakened at 7:15 by birds singing (loudly!) in my backyard. Walked to the Q train, passing various neighbors and stopping to chat, say hi, catch up on neighborhood gossip (who's fixing to sell, whose son had a mishap with those wheelie-sneaker things and broke his leg, whose garden is invaded by aphids, etc.). Came home this evening on the bus up Rogers Ave from Flatbush and was accosted by a political candidate who wanted my signature to get on the ballot for September. Saw my neighbors' signatures on the petition, talked about his plans for a charter school in the area. Said hi other neighbors sitting on their stoops. Utterly banal and at the same time completely refreshing and comforting. This is a real neighborhood with real people who care about each other. This is also New York, which at the absolute bottom of the list in crime statistics for the 25 largest cities in the country. Crazy people may stab people on the subway and in Times Square, but these things are really very rare. Get over it!

Posted by: babs at June 19, 2006 9:52 PM

We're not talking about NYC. We're talking about PLG, the area that, as an earlier poster noted, is known as "the combat zone". Your arguments are all rather like this: "Not everyone who lives in PLG gets murderered. Therefore, it is an exceptionally safe neighborhood." Unfortunately there's quite a gap between the premise and the conclusion of your argument. Specifically, you overlook the fact that lots of people do get killed in PLG. Why do you refuse to face this? Is it because the victims are mostly African American? You make PLG sound like Leave It To Beaver, but I don't ever remember seeing the Beav with his hand blown off, or Wally scoring crack on the street corner.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 20, 2006 8:13 AM

Excuse me, no-one, not even the police, calls PLG the combat zone -- maybe you're referring to East Flatbush, or maybe years ago, just like Myrtle Ave in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill was called Murder Ave? Your references are at least 10 years out of date here. People get killed here, people get killed in Park Slope, people get killed on Central Park West, people get killed (lots more than in NY) in Houston, Texas. So your point is? And Wally was a serious crackhead back in the day, the censors just wouldn't let them show it on TV.

Posted by: babs at June 20, 2006 9:48 AM

Babs,

You were right when you responded to my last post by saying "Oh, please, why even respond to this nonsense?"

Why then do we respond? Propably because its infuriating to see such negative b.s. by someone like Camilla/Shane/Anon.8:13 who obviously don't know s**t about our nabe and instead fanticizes (i.e the "combat zone" nonsense).

This thread has now left the front page of Brownstoner. Let's let the pathetic troll argue with himself and brew up imagined "facts" to his heart's content while realizing that no one really takes this creep seriously. Enough is enough.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 20, 2006 10:03 AM

No one is trying to silence them, but if you look you will see that those who claim PLG is a terrible place to live neither live there, nor accept the truth of what Bob (my hero!!) and Babs (Heroine!) say. If you want them to accept that some people consider PLG dangerous, then the opposite also has to happen. But to claim it's property values- well, anyone with half a brain will tell you that property values don't mean s**t if you cna't stick your head out the door. Seems to me that Bob and Babs both love living in PLG- more than they care about the property values.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at June 20, 2006 3:50 PM

I did not make the post at 3:50PM. It looks like someone has a little too much time on their hands.

Posted by: Bx2Bklyn at June 20, 2006 4:53 PM

FWIW Bx2Bklyn 3:50 certainly READS like the B2B I know.

Actually, I have mixed feelings about property values--on the one hand, it IS rather gratifying that the value of my house has increased MANY fold. OTOH, its kind of like play money because I'm never selling my house--I hope to leave it to my son (who grew up here and would be happy to raise his own future family here). B2B is, of course right when she writes that " anyone with half a brain will tell you that property values don't mean s**t if you cna't stick your head out the door" but that's never been a problem here.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at June 20, 2006 9:04 PM

Actually, it was not her, Bob. The troll is merely copying her style, no doubt because he lacks one of his own.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 21, 2006 12:12 AM

Get thee hence, troll, as I did not write at 12:12. What an infantile baby. Please go get a job.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at June 22, 2006 11:46 AM

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