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August 17, 2006

Brownstone Breakfast: Price Cut on Hancock

house
After being reduced from $1.1 million to $995,000 earlier in the summer, this absolutely gorgeous brownstone at 371 Hancock, which was HOTD in early July, has just gotten another price cut to $935,000. The architectural details in this place are stunning but evidently people are shying away from dropping a million bucks in Bed Stuy--even on one of the nabe's best streets. Think this'll find a buyer at this price?
371 Hancock Street [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
HOTD: 371 Hancock Street [Brownstoner]




Posted by Brownstoner at 8:57 AM | Comments (43)
Categories: Properties

Comments

Still overpriced. The building size is small at 17.5 x 42 ft. Better deals out there in Bed-Stuy. It moves at $850k tops.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 17, 2006 9:24 AM

I just did a drive-by:

1. It needs a new facade
2. It's short
3. It's narrow (17.5 ft)
4. It's feet away from Throop (busy avenue)
5. It's definitely NOT one of the nabe's best streets (sparse, stubby trees, dilapidated frames), mebbe one of Hancock's least charming in fact.

Given the above, I still think its priced too high. Many more appealing properties to pay close to a million for in the area. If im not mistaken, a previous HOTD sold for 1.175 M on Stuyvesant recently (see property shark...)

http://brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2006/05/416_stuyvesant_1.html

Posted by: mcteague at August 17, 2006 9:30 AM

Both people above are correct -- at the 900+ level in Bed-Stuy, you whould be able to get at least 20 feet wide in good condition. Having lived in both 18 and 20' wide houses, there is a subtantial difference in feel. Plus, it's hard to tell, from the photos, but the top floor seems more like a garret than a full height floor. Anyone seen the place inside?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 9:57 AM

I don't know Bed-Stuy block by block as many do, but how does today's very prominent news story about a shooting, with two dead, at Hancock and Malcolm X play into this? That's four blocks away from this house. Hancock has so many nice blocks and beautiful homes--how does this location stack up?

Posted by: tinarina at August 17, 2006 10:04 AM

I think that we are seeing a flight to quality in the market and Bed Sty will probably take a proportionally larger hit than other brownstone nabes which were part of the first wave of revival/renovation. I think that this house will have a hard time getting over 900,000.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 10:09 AM

I thought BedSty would be a good place to get the cheapest brownstone in brooklyn with some good details. But now with those two deaths I'm worried. That's awfully close to Sty Heights. I thought homes off Malcom X would be a little cheaper, now I know why.

Where's left to find a brownstoner for 600-700K?

Posted by: Sally at August 17, 2006 10:15 AM

About the murder.... that is a real issue in Bed Sty -- crime is way down but these violent crimes are a reality - (I was thinking about buying a place near Lafayette and Classon 18 months ago, and was wondering about crime there (near the Police Precinct etc) when a week after I saw this nice place, someone was shot in the head and killed on the corner of Classon and Lafayette at 4:30 in the afternoon. Pretty chilling and in this marketplace.... buyers will be paying attention to this and paying up in other nabes....

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 10:18 AM

Meteague is correct about this block of Hancock. The block before it, between Marcy and Thompkins is by far, one of the best blocks in Bed Stuy, if not most of Brooklyn, for architectural beauty and diversity of styles. This block is kinda eh. It's like they ran out of juice at the corner and didn't even try. That said, this is a beautiful, albeit overpriced piece of property. I used to live in a very similar sized house a block away, and this sized house can be quite comfortable as a one family, a bit cramped as a two. The ceilings on the top floor are low, especially if you are very tall, and the rooms have that garret/attic feel which is fine for kids, not so much for adults.

Throop Ave isn't a scenic vista, but isn't that bad, and can only get better. Interestingly enough, Thompkins Ave in the area of the house, right down the block, used to be one of the most dangerous and scary blocks around, mostly due to the park a block away at Halsey. Now that stretch between Jefferson and Halsey is filled with upscale shops and antique stores and is becoming a shopping hub. It can happen.

Regarding the shooting, it seems to be a case of the shooter and the shot knowing each other. Unfortunate, scary and tragic, but those things can happen wherever the wrong people get together. I would not discount the nabe over that. Bed Stuy is getting to be a better place to live in every day.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at August 17, 2006 10:20 AM

As a new (I think I'm going to have to stop saying that soon) Bed-Stuy resident, I have a vested interest in the value of properties in the near vacinity. When this home was first listed @ $1.1 and this huge debate came about houses north of Stuy-heights being listed over $1MM etc.etc. I called the broker.

He was arrogant to say the least, using the recent sale of a home on Stuyvesant and Decatur as a comp...

I was like " Dude, not even close"!! Well, not even a month later the priced was slashed to the more recent $995 and now this.

In my humble opinion, as much as I'd love to see a home in the stuy go for close to a Mill. It ain't worth it.....YET.... atleast not this place. While the interior is nice and well preserved, the Facade is a wreck. The block is questionable at best. And Thats not to say All of Hancock is questionable. Just like All of Decatur is not Beautiful...(a la closer to Bushwick) But this place is still over priced by no less then $135K

Yea.yea.. Who am I to say blah blah blah.... Well, There's a much better place over on Putnam between Marcus Garvey & Throop for just under $700. Albeit is a 3 story. But the Hancock isn't a true 4 story anyway.... Quality Homes is doing the sale.

Sorry to be so long winded... I've got time on my hands.. ;-)

Posted by: NewStoner at August 17, 2006 10:22 AM

Flight to quality? I agree. But for many New Yorkers, quality in some of the better nabes is still very far out of reach. Thus BS homes represents "quality" to many families priced out of the more established areas in Brownstone Brooklyn. Nonetheless, this property is very much overpriced. There are better homes on the market in BS on better blocks. No way this sells for even close to $900k. $800k or lower would be right in my book.

Regarding the flight to quality argument, gentrification typically occurs in waves that dovetail quite closely with the state of the economy. Fort Greene went through similar waves before it finally took off for good in the late 1990s. With that being said, home prices in BS have gone up too far, too quickly. A contraction in the BS market is long overdue if not necessary to promote further development in the community. IMHO, downward pricing pressure in BS is in the long term best interest of the community in that it will attract a broader array of families into the area. In ten years, there will be no material difference between Fort Greene, Clinton Hill or "Brownstone Bed-Stuy".

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 17, 2006 10:24 AM

I completely agree with SuperAnon. I purchased in Bed-Stuy in August of '05 and according to some folks, I should be staring at close to $300k in equity just over a year later? I think not. And my place is the most BEAUTIFUL in all of BROOKLYN!! .... :-)

Ok... just a slight embellishment. But the numbers are real.

Posted by: NewStoner at August 17, 2006 10:32 AM

Anyone got a link to news on the Malcolm X shooting? ny1 website only has a small mention.

Posted by: tommynotty at August 17, 2006 10:33 AM

'Flight to Quality' sounds like trite cliche obviously borrowed from Wall Street. Most people buy house for place to live and security and control over ones life.
All neighborhoods have seen prices go up 'too far, too quickly'. And thats all over the metro area so don't be so myopic and just think its happening in Brooklyn.
Although it may cost a fortune to buy a house in Ft. Greene and many other areas consider 'gentrified' - I think you might be surprised if you read demographic statistics on whole neighborhood - as far as per cap income, etc.

Posted by: petebklyn at August 17, 2006 10:43 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/nyregion/17shoot.html?ref=nyregion

Posted by: steev at August 17, 2006 10:45 AM

When judging your safety on neighborhood I think you have to make distinction between some druggie killing another or wife shooting husband vs. someone being murdered for an IPod walking down the street or intruder into someones home.
A murder happens in Bed-Stuy reinforces notion to outsiders that nowhere in vast Bed-Stuy are you safe - and if happens Bk Height diff story.

Posted by: petebklyn at August 17, 2006 11:29 AM

CHP, I hear what you're saying about the shooter and the shot knowing each other. But it involved a semiautomatic weapon and could have hurt bystanders.

I live not far from Putnam and Grand, the epicenter of recent crime in Clinton Hill. As a current resident, I can take the current uptick in crime in context--overall crime is down, and most people know where the trouble spots are, etc.

But to someone just beginning to take a look at Bed Stuy real estate who doesn't know the area well, I would think the shooting might scare the hell out of a prospective buyer.

Posted by: tinarina at August 17, 2006 11:34 AM

petebklyn,

all neighborhoods have seen prices go up a lot and fast, but that doesn't mean they've all gone up equally. Over the past year or so, Brownstoner has linked some of the reports from real estate agents, etc., on price increases in different Brooklyn neighborhoods, and Bed Stuy's have been among the most staggering in the past couple years.

Posted by: linusvanpelt at August 17, 2006 11:35 AM

I can't agree with the idea that Throop avenue can only get better. It could go back down. With the housing market stalled at the moment things could go either way, if the market picks up - sure. But if the market starts to drop, the less desirable areas will be the first to take a hit. BTW, if you follow the news you'll see many shooting deaths in NYC are bystanders, somethimes people sitting by a window in their house. Guns going off on your block? get out.

Posted by: pachuca at August 17, 2006 11:41 AM

I'm still a little flabbergasted that bed-stuy gets so much more play than Crown Heights. Crown Heights has great train access and much of bed-stuy does not and there are some brownstones for less than 800,000 in good condition. Anyone agree?

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 12:32 PM

i too have wondered this.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 1:05 PM

I just purchased a brownstone in bed stuy after year of looking both in crown heights and bed stuy. I looked over crime stats; asked around etc. I decided to buy in bed stuy (1) because of the amazing architecture of some of brownstones and (2) the beat cops I saw every time I drove past the particular blocks I was considering. I think they call it Operation Impact. It makes a difference.

Posted by: new bed stuy at August 17, 2006 1:32 PM

"I'm still a little flabbergasted that bed-stuy gets so much more play than Crown Heights. Crown Heights has great train access and much of bed-stuy does not and there are some brownstones for less than 800,000 in good condition. Anyone agree?"

Brownstone Bed-Stuy is concentrated along the A and C train lines and is located about 15-20 minutes from downtown Manhattan by subway. Crown Heights North (historic district) has what? The 3 and 4 lines are all the way on the otherside of Crown Heights by Eastern Pkwy. So it appears to me that residents of CHN must walk to BS to take the train. Perhaps that has something to do with the preference of BS over CHN.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 17, 2006 1:54 PM

I did the same research but came to a different conclusion. Crown Heights has the Children's Museum that is being renovated and will surely draw a more upscale clientelle and further reduce crime. And as far as crime stats, North CH is lower than both precincts that cover bed-stuy.

Posted by: CHnewcomer at August 17, 2006 1:55 PM

There are 4, (rush hour-only) 5 trains in 2,3 trains on eastern parkway, steps away from much of CH.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 2:33 PM

What is North Crown Heights? I know it is freshly landmarked but what are the borders?

Posted by: new bed stuy at August 17, 2006 2:46 PM

Here are boundries: From the crown heights north block association:
http://www.crownheightsnorth.com/

So happy to see some others from Crown Heights and Bed-Stuy here...

Posted by: CHnewcomer at August 17, 2006 3:02 PM

I must admit, CHN is a beautiful nabe. Highly undervalued. It's neck and neck with Bed-Stuy as the next nabe to go big time. I'm partial to CHN because the residents are better organized then Bed-Stuy; as indicated by this awesome website and its recent landmarks designation. Much props to CHP and the rest of the CHN crew. Many blessings to you all.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 17, 2006 3:15 PM

Question, for an individual looking to climb the Real Estate ladder.

Where is the best entry point for someone with limited assets (50K-80k), A 80K salary and a desire to purchase a house in Bk. I have own real estate in upsate NY and currently own a condo in QB. I cannot accept the "Priced out of the market" rule, all of you BStoners had to start somewhere. Simply put where would you seasoned investor/homeowners tell someone to buy and position themselves to be a future BStone owner. Even it it takes 5-10 years.

Would it be a Condo, a fixer upper (obviously over long time) or look deeper into BK?

Posted by: QBorBK at August 17, 2006 3:15 PM

Crown Heights of course! Near the trains and in the proposed landmark boundries... the closer to the subway the better. I say NO to condos! They are a dime a dozen and all those monthly fees $250-$800 a month is ridiculous. You could spend that on your twice-the-size brownstone instead. If you can't afford the whole thing, buy a 4-story with someone and split it in two-Just make SURE you have an iron clad contract about who pays for what in the building.

Posted by: CHnewcomer at August 17, 2006 3:22 PM

Newburgh, NY. Metro North, dude. Or get a job on Wall St...

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 3:38 PM

Finally something superanon and I can agree on- CHN :-). I do quite a bit with CHNA also,and they do a fantastic job, but there is so much more to be done. I'm close to the subway on Fulton St. I love the area and although the shops and stores are not Starbucks, and Bergdorf, there are a lot of places to get stuff very inexpensively. The people are friendly and there are many families who have lived in and owned their homes for decades.

Posted by: jennyanne at August 17, 2006 3:48 PM

I would look at a 3 to 4 family brownstone fixer upper in either BS or CHN. You're definitely going to need the rental income (thus the elimination of PLG as an option). You will have to dig really hard to find a bargain but diamonds in the rough are everywhere. Look very closely at foreclosure and HUD offerings. You'd be surprised at what you can find. Stay away from the large brokerage houses. Why pay the premium? Look to FSBO and Craig's List ads. Go to all the local mom and pop realtors in the nabe and check their listings - they got some gems at decent prices. Try to engage local homeowners (they provide good leads, especially on estate sales and pending divorce situations). Do your own renovations overtime and maybe take an upstairs floor thru rental for a few years while renting out the more profitable duplex apartment. No need to overextend yourself. Homeownership and being a landlord is very challenging. Look to buy the worst house on the best block in an up and coming nabe. Don't go the other way because it's easier to lift your standards to the heights of your neighbors rather than the other way around (you don't want the best house on the worst block; very limited upside). Stay away from blocks with nearby apartment buildings, unless condo or coop. Research large apartment buildings in the area. If HUD owned or Section 8, don't buy in the area. Those buildings rarely turnover and those residents have a different level of 'community pride" then homeowners. I wish this wasn't the case but it's true. Good luck.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 17, 2006 3:52 PM

SuperAnon is right on point. The smaller agents definitely have some great opportunities. Why bother with a condo if its a Brownstone you want? There are some things out there to be had. and they don't have to be gut renos. Live in the top floor of a 3 family and you can conceivably get $3,000 of rental income for a 3 story and more for a 4 story. That would leave only $1,300 or so of cost for you to cover your mortgage. W/ $80K annually, you're probably paying more than that to rent an apartment anyway.

So Brownstone ownership is within your grasp. Go For It. And ask the owners. They have the inside scoop.

Posted by: NewStoner at August 17, 2006 4:18 PM

I actually agree with the majority of what SuperAnon says, Jennyanne. He thinks for himself and doesn't buy into the cookie-cutter NIMBY position. Keep it coming SA.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 4:26 PM

Anyone know what the deal is with foreclosures. Some of them look nice from the outside, but not sure about the inside.

Also I see banks that buy foreclosure property for only $1,000 (the minimum bid). I guess there are liens on the building?

Posted by: Leslie at August 17, 2006 4:58 PM

While Newburgh, NY has some great historic building and the waterfront is recently cleaned up and ye' olde and quaint, we took a wrong turn getting to that area for a recent trip up there and were like, whoa, we better U turn out of this neighborhood right now. Newburgh has some rather rough areas.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 5:25 PM

if there are rough areas around newburg, and it's still a hike from NYC - it aint worth it.

anybody ever buy a foreclosure? are they worth it or do most need gut reno?

Posted by: anonymous at August 17, 2006 5:33 PM

Thanks for all of the good vibes about Crown Heights North. By the way, a good half of the nabe from about Park Pl on north walks up to Fulton and gets the A train, more often than not. It's faster than the 3 and if you are going to the west side of Manhattan, much more convenient. It is good to have the choice.

Regarding foreclosures, my house was a forclosure. I bought it from the RE investor who bought it on the courthouse steps. He had driven by, but had never seen the inside before buying. He did almost nothing before selling it to me. Most of his houses were foreclosures. Like anything else, you pays your money, you takes your chances. Most of his houses had the usual problems - plumbing, electrical, general TLC. None were structurally unsound. Some needed more work than others, most had tenants, some were empty. I think if you are going this route, as a newbie you need to partner or mentor with someone who has a few of these under their belt. They can tell the good ones from the disasters with a practiced eye. They can look at the violations or records and figure out where there may have been a new roof needed, or put on, new boiler, etc. Many of these houses have just been used hard and had everything sucked out of them, and just need new everything, some are gems that the owners have had forever and they have had a run of bad financial luck. (I hate those.) If you get a foreclosure for not a lot of money, on a decent block, and you put the same TLC that most here have put into, or are putting into, their homes, you can come out a winner.

Posted by: CrownHeightsProud at August 17, 2006 6:06 PM

SuperAnon<

You only have to eliminate the possibility of rental income in the Lefferts Manor portion of PLG, which is probably out of QBorBK's price range in any case. The rest of PLG is worth considering, along with CHN and BS.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 17, 2006 8:29 PM

Sorry--I was Anon. 8:29--forgot to sign in.

Posted by: Bob Marvin at August 17, 2006 8:31 PM

i have recently moved to bedstuy and am very concerned about the impact of yesterdays shooting on malcolm x. i have a few questions for my felow brownstoners do you believe that the stadium beig built on atlantic ave will have a positive impact on bed stuy. also has any one seen the codos that were developed on malcolm x believe it is between macon and halsey

Posted by: kbrooklan at August 18, 2006 1:07 AM

I think Atlantic Yards, the Downtown Development Plan, the BAM Cultural District, the Brooklyn Bridge Park, the Williamsburg Waterfront Development Plan, and the Brooklyn Navy Yard rezoning will all have a very positive impact on Brownstone Brooklyn. IMHO, the biggest beneficiaries will be the "less established" brownstone nabes on the periphery (greater upside potential), in particular Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights North and PLG. In ten years, you'll be thanking God that you got into any of these nabes while they were still affordable for middle income families. If Manhattan continues to turn into another Tokoyo, prime townhouse living in intact brownstone communities in Brooklyn will be in very high demand.

Posted by: SuperAnon at August 18, 2006 6:45 AM

Hey, Thanks for the replies/advice. I have read BStoner for some time and the dialouge/disagreements is always top notch (Troll's excluded).

CHN has been top on my list for some time, but as mentioned it's a hard dig to find the diamond in the rough for my price range (max 750K).

SuperAnon, do you have the contact of the investor whom you purchased your place from. Or does anyone else have a contact who deals in forclosures. Please shoot me an email.

Posted by: QBorBK at August 18, 2006 7:57 AM

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