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September 21, 2006

HOTD: If You Only Buy One House This year...

house
Today's HOTD is the most table-pounding buy we've seen in a long, long time and we bet that, slumping market be damned, this will be gone within a week. The two-family Greek Revival woodframe house has been carefully maintained by the same owner for the last twelve years and sports a sweet front porch and back yard. The place has plenty of original architectural charm, though we'll admit that the kitchen and bathroom aren't anything to crow about. The location on Adelphi just off Lafayette is prime Fort Greene, just a couple of blocks from the park and the majority of the best restaurants in the nabe. Honestly, except for the aforementioned lackluster kitchen and bathroom and perhaps the slightly shallow lot of 75 feet, we're surprised this isn't priced at least $200,000 higher. If we were in the market right now, we'd be all over this.
331 Adelphi Street [Aguayo & Huebener] GMAP P*Shark

Comments

what's a horsewalk?

Posted by: sylvia at September 21, 2006 12:11 PM

little alley between your house and next where could walk your horse from street to back.
Nice feature for nowadays - don't need to drag garden stuff thru the house. Or construction materials.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 12:22 PM

Sorry, I just do not get what is so great about this one.

Posted by: Donna at September 21, 2006 12:23 PM

One word (or two) - Woodframe, woodframe, woodframe.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 12:26 PM

woodframe is good to some bad to others

Posted by: TonyTone at September 21, 2006 12:34 PM

advantages vs disadvantages of a wood frame?

Posted by: ANON at September 21, 2006 12:58 PM

Higher insurance, especially if attached.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 1:01 PM

what if you had a horse and no horsewalk? how would it get to the street? then again I guess it would never end up in the back in the first place...

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 1:07 PM

I agree that this is a charming house. But one major drawback, IMO, is that it's a double duplex. A buyer wanting a single family or a triplex is looking at a lot of renovation/reconfiguration, and a small family or couple could spend less money for the same square feet of the duplex and not have the hassle of tenants and house maintenance.

When houses in the area were going for $700-$800k, a double duplex was still a good buy--the rent really made a dent in the mortgage. But the math doesn't work at a higher price level.

Posted by: tinarina at September 21, 2006 1:10 PM

Prove me wrong. There is a bigger pool of buyers for brick, brownstone and limestone buildings than for woodframes.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 1:16 PM

I love that block, and love woodframe. But I guess $1.5 still seems a LOT to me, compared with other options. Esp as tinarina mentions about the math -- split up, the two apartments aren't each worth $750,000, at least not to me.

Posted by: diana at September 21, 2006 1:25 PM

I just don't see many people making a distinction on comparable houses. The catcher is comparable, since in NYC the wealthy have been buildign in brick and stone for a long time, and most of the available woodframes (or wood faced houses, as many of them may be brick underneath) are more modest in size and detail. I personally love the greek revival styles of the remaining woodframes in Fort Greene and Clinton Hill. The front porches speak to a much friendly attitude.

Posted by: putnam-denizen at September 21, 2006 1:27 PM

For those who don't think this is a deal, if you had to buy a house for $1.5 mil right now, which would it be?

Posted by: brownstoner at September 21, 2006 1:31 PM

A&H finally changed their website!!! Now, if only Brooklyn Properties did as well..

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 1:32 PM

This house has a couple of major problems:
1) I doubt that the bottom floor is a legal bedroom--if it is it is insanely dark.
2) Exposed side of the building(for the horsewalk) means drastically higher heating costs

3) This house is 35 feet deep. 343 Waverly (just down lafayette) sold for less than a million and was bigger than this and had a bigger yard.

4) Termites

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 1:32 PM

I lived just next door to this house in the early seventies although I was never IN this house. The subway runs under the place next door and shakes the fillings out of your head on a regular basis. I can't imagine this one is a whole lot better. If you visit the place, hang around for a bit and brace yourself for the rattling.

Posted by: Oldie at September 21, 2006 1:36 PM

"For those who don't think this is a deal, if you had to buy a house for $1.5 mil right now, which would it be?"

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=902556

I'm sure there will be others pretty soon in this topped-out market...

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 1:50 PM

That Corcoran house would be my choice at 1.5m too but it really only works as a one family, whereas the Adelphi house is a double duplex, offsetting your mortgage. It kind of makes them apples and oranges.

Posted by: west at September 21, 2006 2:02 PM

This would be my choice at 1.5 or under... http://www.ahbrooklyn.com/property.php?id=32&type=house&displaytype=house

Posted by: west at September 21, 2006 2:05 PM

I would buy the house on Marlborough, at half the price. No need to deal with tenants, has a garage, up and coming neighborhood, light from all sides (yes and I know this means higher heating bill but what the hey - it would be worth it to have actual sunlight hitting my childrens' faces - a rarety in my brownstone rental).

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 2:11 PM

2:02,

Why one family? Top unit looks spacious enough to me. Less help with the mortgage (not for all buyers) but better bang for buck. It's a bonafide brownestone. Hopefully, we'll see which one closes first.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 2:13 PM

I'm sure garden level is legal. Sq ftage for house on records includes it.
Drastically higher heating costs? Plenty of thing effect heating cost...but to call it drastic is bit much.
All of our houses have plenty of wood for termites - for instance wall studs, floor joists, etc. But this isn't Florida and although happens not common in this neigborhood.
Teeth-rattling? I think we have a lot of gloom-doom types here.
Anyone here live on Lafayette? Is it horrible? I live fairly close to Smith St. and aware of train when everything is quiet, still at night hardly disturbing. And had many guests stay over who said never aware of it.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 2:31 PM

Some people put a great deal of value on rarity and woodframe is rare in NYC. My ancestors lived all over this neighborhood in the mid-19th century and not one of their dwellings (most of which were woodframe) still stands. The kitchen and bath aren't bad at all--they really only need better floors.

Posted by: Rascal at September 21, 2006 2:56 PM

I live 60' off of Fulton and I get the rumbling of the C local and the A express. In the middle of the night, yeah, you can hear it some. During the day, if you were standing perfectly still and there was no other noise (no radio, no music, no talking) you can hear/feel it a tiny bit.

I actually think it's kinda charming. And my brownstone has been standing for 100 years. (BTW, my carpenter loves frames, instead of masonry buildings. they are easier to repair, in some respects)

Posted by: glarph at September 21, 2006 3:10 PM

Well the Corcoran listing on Prospect is stunning, but again seems like a lot of money to me. I guess I still am remembering the days when $1.5 mil got you 83 (?) S. Elliot nd it was probably 5,000 square feet and had only 4 or five owners since it was built so it was unrenovated. That was the one when I wished I actually made money.

Well I didn't look super hard, but this is what I'd do:

http://www.3location3.com/open-realty/listingview.php?listingID=195&PHPSESSID=571f7e725b77d49d988074c392cad13a

I'd keep an office or maybe a store in the downstairs and have a fucking sweet place upstairs.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 3:17 PM

Well I didn't look super hard, but this is what I'd do:

http://www.3location3.com/open-realty/listingview.php?listingID=195&PHPSESSID=571f7e725b77d49d988074c392cad13a

I'd keep an office or maybe a store in the downstairs and have a fucking sweet place upstairs.

Posted by: ftgreener at September 21, 2006 3:18 PM

I lived on Lafayette for several years and in the dead of the night you could faintly hear a low hum of the subway passing. No vibrations. Also, two duplexes could easily go for $750. I sold a floor through apartment around the corner from this place for over $600K a couple of years ago. I think the question will be what sort of details are left inside and will the buyer want to do any sort of major renovations. Otherwise, it is priced to move quickly, and above ask, in my opinion.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 3:32 PM

I think the G is very deep underground at this point, since Lafayette is a hill, so that would explain why you don't hear the subway or feel it much.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 3:34 PM

If you don't think this house is well-priced, note that an under-renovation brick townhouse on the same block has just been listed with Brooklyn Properties at $2.25m. It's insanely overpriced, but this one is underpriced, IMO.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 3:50 PM

What about the B38 that goes by every few minutes. IT is loud..

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 3:59 PM

This house is not even close to worth 1.5m. With the change in the market, I would wait, if I was interested, and eventually offer 1.1 to 1.2. If I loved it, which I don't, maybe 1.3.

Posted by: Reality at September 21, 2006 4:21 PM

Brownstoner, how do you REALLY feel about this house??? I like it too -- but I think I'm stuck on stone.

For 1.325, here's a skinny FSBO between Willowby and Myrtle, but nice and looks in pretty good shape.

http://realestate.nytimes.com/Sales/View_Ulisting.asp?Lid=253-NS6092042&CId=&p=W

Posted by: donatella at September 21, 2006 4:37 PM

Hope every one that thinks they're going to get 30% discounts by throwing out low ball offers enjoys living in their rental, because they'll be their a long time. If this house isn't worth $1.5 its worth $1.3-$1.4 (about 10% off of ask).

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 4:56 PM

I just got into contract on a fixer upper in Fort Greene / Clinton Hill for twenty-three percent less than the asking price. I don't think it's such a stretch. It just matters how much the sellers need to sell.

Posted by: Shahn Andersen at September 21, 2006 5:40 PM

I lived directly above the G train on Lafayette and South Portland. I was never bothered by a train rumbling. I think the above poster who mentioned the depth of the trains in this location was right.

Posted by: dt at September 21, 2006 5:59 PM

2:13--One staircase, no sep entrance, means that the tenant would have to go thru your apartment to get upstairs. Better as a one-family unless you know the tenant, no?

Posted by: west at September 21, 2006 6:01 PM

4:56,

Flip Side: Hope sellers enjoy holding on to their depreciating assets. They will do so for a while at these prices.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 21, 2006 6:13 PM

6:13

Flip Flip Side: With all the transaction costs, real estate is a long term investment. I bought my house 5 years ago after renting for 15+ years. I didn't mark my houe to market every year when the market is strong and won't do it now that the market is soft. Over 10-20 years, the odds of a NYC house appreciating are overwhelmingly strong. I was lucky and had nice rentals. It's still not the same as owning. As a renter, it never made sense to make improvements to the apartment (even if you had the owners position). You also could never had that extra bedroom, separate dining room, garden etc. If you want to own a home, you're going to have to make an onwer a fair offer at some point. There is no point in selling at a discount in a soft market. As an owner, you always have the option of rent out your house (likley for above carrying costs) until the market improves.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 22, 2006 8:57 AM

flip flip flip side: unless you bought in 2005 with an option arm 95-100% LTV.

Posted by: gpt at September 22, 2006 10:25 AM

west,
almost all houses have one staircase - and no - upstairs neighbor does not go thru your apt.
You never been in one of these houses in brooklyn?

Posted by: Anonymous at September 22, 2006 10:36 AM

Isn't Shahn Andersen the dude who is long that massive Cambridge thing that's "going to be done by Christmas"??

Posted by: Anonymous at September 22, 2006 11:12 AM

Buying in this market even at 25% off ask is risky. I'd wait for 50% off ask. I'm in the real estate business too and my gut tells me we're in for a ride.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 22, 2006 1:09 PM

Hey Oldie,

The elevated subway hasn't existed on Myrtle for more then a decade now.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 22, 2006 4:00 PM

Gee, has it BEEN ten years since the El went? Gosh it seems like yesterday : P

Posted by: Esther Gritz at September 24, 2006 11:27 PM

Lovely, but buyers need to consider that this home, in the Fort Greene historic district, will be in the shadow of Bruce Ratner's new megalopolis. Literally. The draft environmental impact statement says, in fact, that for the month of December this address will be in shadow all month. If you haven't checked out this document you should.

Posted by: anonymous at October 22, 2006 8:40 AM

Just checked out the open house today. The realtors bill it as a good deal for two families. If you were buying this with your best friend, or at least someone you liked, what are you going to do, flip a coin for who lives in basement and parlor floor? That's a natural born rental. It's the top two floors that you'd really want to "own." I guess if you split the bill 70% for upstairs and 30% for downstairs, it might work. I dno't get that scenario othewise. Very upstairs/downstairs.

Posted by: just looking at October 22, 2006 7:06 PM

We went to the open house as well and since have been going back and forth about what we think the percentage breakdown of the two apartments would be as well...Anyone else have an opinion on what would be fair? Certainly, one could be creative with ownership of the garden and cellar, for example, no?

Posted by: Anonymous at October 31, 2006 1:41 PM

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September 21, 2006

HOTD: If You Only Buy One House This year...

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