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December 28, 2006

Pinpointing Biggie's Crib

A reader steered us to the photographs from a 2003 exhibition at the Robin Rice Gallery in the West Village. The photographer Micheal McLaughlin took a number of atmospheric black-and-white photos of Brooklyn scenes and landmarks, including the childhood home of Biggie Smalls and the Brooklyn Heights apartment of Truman Capote. We know that Capote's place was on Willow Street and we've always been under the impression that Biggie lived on St. James Place in Clinton Hill. Can anyone i.d. the exact address of this apartment building?
BKLYN: Micheal McLaughlin [Robin Rice Gallery]

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Capote lived in the basement apartment of the building in the photo, at 70 Willow Street, which was owned by Broadway set designer Oliver Smith, a friend of Capote's (who designed the Bway production of Breakfast at Tiffany's, which Capote wrote). Capote's short story, A House on the Heights, celebrates the beauty of the house at 70 Willow. What's less well known is that Capote's first residence in Brooklyn was actually in Clinton Hill, at 17 Clifton Place (he moved there in 1946). On pg 125 of Gerald Clarke's "Capote: A Biography," Capote is quoted as follows: "I have changed addresses, have moved to a little lost mews in darkest Brooklyn...I wanted most to get way from hectic, nerve-wracking influences, to escape and get on with my work." For ten dollars a week, Capote rented two rooms at 17 Clifton, which was a rooming house owned by a pair of elderly women who ran a phone-answering service in the basement.

Posted by: Anon at December 28, 2006 11:25 AM

I understand that Biggie lived on St. James Pl. between Gates and Fulton in one of the limestone apartment buildings with his Mom, not sure which one as there are about four or five in the same style in a row. The developers group renovated one of those buildings about 3 or 4 years ago and made them into condos that sold like hotcakes.

Posted by: lp at December 28, 2006 11:40 AM

226 st james pl apt 3L.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 11:56 AM

Biggie Lived @ 226 St. James Pl. Near the corner of Fulton. It's the building on the left hand side just before the corner.

Posted by: NewStoner at December 28, 2006 12:10 PM

i used to live around the corner and was there for the memorial.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 12:19 PM

Funny how Biggie rapped about living in Bed Stuy. Now that St. James Pl has been annexed by Ft Greene, his lyrics dont quite have the same meaning.

Slangin rocks on the mean streets of Ft. Greene doesnt quite have the same cred as slanging rock in Bed Stuy.

Posted by: Ballin' at December 28, 2006 12:20 PM

St James is Clinton Hill, not Fort Greene. I have seen people try to pass off Waverly as Fort Greene, but no-one would go this far over. However, someone else informed me now that, "according to the City," Bed Stuy now starts at Marcy -- and this was a landlord, not a real estate agent!

Posted by: babs at December 28, 2006 12:47 PM

In Biggie's day that part of the hood was definitely considered Bed-Stuy. I remember him rapping in front of the liqour store on the corner.

Posted by: Nativegal at December 28, 2006 12:50 PM

Bedford-Stuyvesant starts at Marcy? That'd mean that Nostrand, Bedford, Franklin and Classon are now part of what? I anticipate that soon the Flushing Ave. border to the North will be changed to DeKalb or maybe even Lafayette, farther south, due to the seemingly inevitable encroachment of Williamsburgh. Well, with the rapid gentrification of Bed-Stuy, folks from Brownsville, East New York and even Crown Heights, may soon be making claims to residency there. Such is life.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 1:05 PM

Hey Ballin,

Back in the days Ft. Greene was no cake walk. There was Supreme Magnetic and his Supreme Team. Not to be confused with the Supreme Team of Kenneth Mc Griff/Queens fame. There was also the "Original" Fifty Cents (Who the rapper got his name from), Killer Ben O'Garra, (who still has a mural some where off Myrtle.) And host of others that had Ft. Greene POPPIN' in a literal and figurative sense.

Posted by: Ft. Greene WAS gangster at December 28, 2006 1:38 PM

I agree with the last post about Ft. Greene being tough back in the day. My mom went to college over in clinton hill and the students did not walk down Dekalb for fear of their life...actually many of my moms classmates were robbed and beat. When I moved there my family was so afraid until they come down for a new look at all the changes!

Posted by: Ft Green was .... at December 28, 2006 1:48 PM

This area is and was Clinton Hill....it is the 11238 Zip.
That being said Clinton Hill was rough back then.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 2:05 PM

The area down dekalb to flatbush is in fact Ft. Greene.....

Posted by: Ft Green was at December 28, 2006 2:19 PM

Why is it sacrilege to say that Biggie was 'fakin' when he says that he grew up in Bed Stuy when in fact it was Clinton Hill? He didnt grow up in a project building nor was he subjected to the widespread poverty found in most of Bed Stuy... He grew up in a friggin Clinton Hill brownstone. How street is that?

Just keepin it real.

Posted by: Ballin' at December 28, 2006 2:54 PM

Zip codes don't define nieghborhoods Anonymous at December 28, 2006 2:05 PM.

Lefferts Place between Franklin & Classon has the 11238 zip. What nabe are you calling that?

Posted by: Nativegal at December 28, 2006 3:09 PM

Wow Fort Greene Was Gangster,

Great to see some brownstoners truly know what Fort Greene was about in the early to mid 80's.

I'm happy to see those days long gone!

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 3:10 PM

'Cause Ballin, don't know what you're talking about. Clearly you are brand new to this(Brooklyn)I mean.

Circa late 70's up until maybe mid to late 90's Fulton and St. James was no joke.

In fact just down the east of there around Grand Ave. There are still remants of how things used to be.

If they were still giving out "hood passes" :yours would get revoked. Poverty is NOT the sole provence of projects. AND one can come from a somewhat stable home and still be enticed by the allure of the streets.

It's kinda the reason why surburban kids buy raps records. As Nas said,"they love hear the stories, how the the thugs live and worry"

Posted by: Fort Green WAS gangster at December 28, 2006 3:15 PM

Lefferts Place between Franklin & Classon is Clinton Hill--wrong side of Bedford for Bedsty.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 3:41 PM

i remember vividly the days when fort greene and clinton hill were way rough. definitely as late as the early 90s. back when fort greene used to get fat on brooklyn heights marks.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 3:48 PM

i remember vividly the days when fort greene and clinton hill were way rough. definitely as late as the early 90s. back when fort greene used to get fat on brooklyn heights marks.

just ice hailed from fort greene.

nativegal - peep this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CEEhY4B2YU

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 3:57 PM

I don't think anyone is doubting that St. James Place was pretty rough back in the day, but I have always thought it was funny that Biggie would say he was from Bed-Stuy. The name Clinton Hill just doesn't sound as frightening - even if it was. Also, what about Block Party - it was stated everywhere that it was filmed in Bed-Stuy. Isn't Downing in Clinton Hill?

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 4:05 PM

People generally refer to Classon as the Bed Stuy border, though brokers are pushing it back to Franklin and Bedford, so the blocks of Lefferts Place, Fulton, Gates, Greene, Dekalb, Willoughby etc. that are west of Classon and East of Vanderbilt are Clinton Hill. Clearly people have used these boundaries loosely in the recent past, just as the brokers are doing now. Doesn't really matter. Some did (or do it) for street cred maybe, some alter the boundaries for real estate marketing purposes. Who cares really.

As for 11238 - that zip spans parts of Ft. Greene, Clinton Hill, bits of Western Bed Stuy and some of Prospect Heights, so you can't use that as a way of defining the borders of a neighorhood.

Posted by: lp at December 28, 2006 4:09 PM

Yeah, Downing is Clinton Hill, at least where the movie was filmed, but who outside of Brooklyn has heard of Clinton Hill? Much cooler to give shout outs to Bed Stuy during the movie. lol

Something I saw that made me almost laugh if it wasn't so lame and depressing - I was watching a B.I.G. documentary on VH1 behind the music and they described where and how he grew up. Then they showed some guy describing how he was part of Biggie's pre-celebrity posse of "hustlers" and how cool it was etc. Sad thing was, I recognized the guy as one of the regulars who still hangs out on Fulton Street "keepin it real" in 2005, or whenever I saw the documentary. I gotta say, some of those dudes are out there everyday, in all sorts of weather, early in the morning, plying their trade. They've got a serious work ethic. Makes me wonder what they could have done with their lives with such dedication if they made a few different choices, and had a few more opportunities...

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 4:20 PM

Is it true that Biggie then ended up living in a condo in Fort Greene later on? I've heard that it was on Carlton Ave in a loft bldg. I just assumed it was the brick one near Myrtle. But not sure if any of this is true or not?

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 4:40 PM

it was on Carlton just above Dekalb. .. he moved there after getting with Faith Evans, but shortly after he got picked up by the mainstream (bad boy) and got paid. I heard he moved out to Northern New Jersey after that.

Posted by: keepin it anon at December 28, 2006 4:51 PM

FG Wanksta, you can revoke my 'ghetto pass' if you please. But you still need to check your geography.. No matter how you slice it, St. James is not in Bed Stuy. Period.

A previous poster pointed out that RE brokers stretch boundaries for marketing purposes. I'm just pointing out how Biggie stretched the boundaries for 'marketing' purposes also.

Its just ironic how for some folks "Bed Stuy" is a badge of honor and for others "Bed Stuy" is a badge of shame. I guess it all comes down to marketing.

Posted by: Ballin' at December 28, 2006 5:26 PM

A bunch of the real old timers in my area called an entire swath of Brooklyn "Bed-Stuy," and considered Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Stuy Heights areas within, not unlike Strivers Row or Sugar Hill in Harlem.

Posted by: glarph at December 28, 2006 5:47 PM

Sit down "Ballin"

Clearly you're NOT from Brooklyn. St.James and Fulton was considered a transition area, So if you're from (Pre-gentification)BROOKLYN like B.I.G.and if you said that block and claimed Bed Stuy OR Clinton Hills no one would raise an eyebrow.

FGWG

Posted by: You Ain't From Brooklyn at December 28, 2006 5:51 PM

Things change. If you look at old Brooklyn Daily Eagle articles from the 19th century, they refer to the area as "The Hill" and "Clinton Hill", even some parts of what we call Fort Greene. Williamburg was called the "Eastern District" in some old articles, so clearly things are somewhat fluid over the years.

Posted by: lp at December 28, 2006 5:52 PM

FGWG, you are correct, i am not from Brooklyn. I moved to Clinton Hill in 1993. Clearly your are not from the area either, as you refer to Clinton Hill with an (s).

As a pre-gentrifier, i'm sure you're aware of the projects that predate Brooklyn Tech's football field and track on Vanderbilt and Fulton. Those projects are where the real _hit was going on. B.I.G and the rest of the Junior Mafia were just catching stragglers and scraps before they could make it to the PJs.

Posted by: Ballin' at December 28, 2006 6:10 PM

So what if someone is "from" Brooklyn or not. It's not as if any of us built this neighborhood or others in the Borough. What's up with the hatin'? If we start this "who's got more history here or lived here longer" stuff, next thing you know, someone will be saying they're part of the native American tribe that lived her before European settlement. Then someone will go really old school and claim Clovis people lineage and start talking about how they used to make stone arrowheads by the Gowanus canal back when everyone else was hunting mammoths in Alaska. lol Seriously, I hope the posts above are in jest.

Posted by: lp at December 28, 2006 6:15 PM

Like Glarph, I remember when all of this area was called Bed Stuy*. The readoption of Clinton Hill as a neighborhood name came along with Landmark designation. The early renovators who had foresight to stay here, do the hard work needed to GET landmark designation and generally stick with the program felt a name other than Bed Stuy - in the early seventies nationally synonomous with vicious riots and looting - might be a good boost to promote interest in the area.

*Someone once told me the Fordham Baldies were up in Ft. Greene park looking for trouble and that I'd better get home. Given how nasty it was then, I had NO trouble keeping away, Baldies or no. The place was full of hypodermics and a bunch of probably imaginary thugs from the Bronx were the least of our troubles.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 7:54 PM

Ballin', as a pre-gentrifier you sound like someone scared to leave their home when the street lights went on. There were no projects where Bklyn Tech's field is, just an overgrown lot. The closest thing to projects over there were/are the white, low-income buildings along Atlantic Ave. Those were being held down by the D-Cepts and when they tried to move east they got their a$$'es shot up and their sneakers taken for trophies.

I'll agree that Biggie was "slangin" for scraps. That's because the area was held down by a few old-school brothers with real Mafia conections. These guys lived in the nabe and weren't letting anybody so much as take a cut of a welfare check from a crack whore, without paying them off first. Headquarters was the back room of the whole in a wall, candy store on Putnam. Those old ladies sitting in front of the building across the street all day, were getting paid to report everything they saw.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 7:58 PM

Anon 7:58 is me

Thanks Anon 3:57, That brings back memories. Biggie rapping right there on Fulton St.

Posted by: Nativegal at December 28, 2006 8:03 PM

rumor has it that he used to live on the first floor of the building I live in, on carlton between myrlte and willoughby. i have no proof, but that's what I was told and we all stand by it...

Posted by: andy at December 28, 2006 9:53 PM

damn, i haven't heard talk about the d-cepts in years. you're bringing back memories of 8-ball jacket drama.

snatchyachainville represent.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 28, 2006 10:09 PM

Thanks to the early posters for providing the exact address!

Posted by: lesterhead at December 28, 2006 10:56 PM

I remeber the D-Cepts and Lowlifes going at it back in the early 90's. I didn't live on this side of Brooklyn back then but I did attend the "High" where many of my colleges were from this very area and were very much active in these gangs. As a kid growing up in the 90's I remeber thinking about attending Brooklyn Tech. I quickly changed my mind after hearing about the daily crimes that frequently popped off in Fort Greene. I concur that during the early 90's Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, and Bedstuy were very very very hood.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 29, 2006 12:03 AM

Since these nabes were built for the gentry originally in early, middle and late 19th century, should we call those who moved in from the 1940s through the late 1980s "ghettoizers" who replaced the "original" families and then started calling the neighborhoods by different names because they didn't know better or didn't care?

The answer to my rhetorical question is "of course not". It is intended to show how stupid these assertions of who really is a Brooklynite are, and the tossing around of labels like "pre-gentrifier" etc.

People seem to wax nostalgic about the 40-50 year odd period when the neighborhood was a truly rough area, even though there is nothing to be sentimental about. Sad really. Way I see it, the gentrified nabes are more true the original idea of an urban community as it was built 150 odd years ago than the 40 to 50 years marked by crime and decline in services. The difference is now it is racially integrated, though the socioeconomic divide is growing with wealthy yuppies and buppies replacing low income tenants and families.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 29, 2006 12:21 AM

"Built for the gentry"? Not necessarily. The original landmark documentation for Clinton Hill and Ft. Greene often has info on the occupations of original owners. On my block of smaller brownstones (in Clinton Hill), the original owners included a minister, a bookseller, a fish merchant, etc. - people who provided services to the wealthier denizens on Clinton Avenue. Not exactly gentry. And when I bought in the late eighties, some of my neighbors called ME "a gentrifier" and announced the hood was theirs. I joined the block association and told them to get over it; history marches on....before their tenure, the block was Irish and Italian, etc. And after I introduced myself and started working for the block assn,the "gentrifier" label vanished. I was just one more nutjob restoring a brownstone in Clinton Hill.

Posted by: Anon at December 29, 2006 12:13 PM

Exactly my point, claims of "my nabe", stay out are pointless. "Gentry" is probably not the best term, but it was built for a class of people, on the whole, who were several steps up the register - be them middle class shop owners, or bankers/lawyers, or wealthy magnates.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 29, 2006 2:13 PM

what about the residents that lived in these areas during the rough times, and contributed positivity? i think that they have every right to be proud of their residency during the rough times. it's great that the new wave of residents have decided to move to, and contribute to these communities, but please don't lose sight of the contributions the long-time and former residents have made. you don't need to rep the hood in order to respect the hood. understand that.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 29, 2006 2:52 PM

I understand that, and do respect that. It is those who wax nostalgic and romanticize thug life and crime as the real hood that I have a problem with.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 29, 2006 3:49 PM

Anon 2:52, your point about contributing is the important one. "Rough times" are in the eye of the beholder, whether one moved to the nabe in the 60s, the 80s, or whatever. I guess I lived through rough times here (survived a couple muggings, avoided a few shootouts). But people are only entitled to pride in something they accomplished. Residency is a fact, not an accomplishment. Working with your neighbors to improve the area is something one can be proud of.

Posted by: Anon at December 29, 2006 6:19 PM

Well Anon 3:49, that would be a problen of your own making.

We're all entitled to our memories whether you approve or not. As for waxing "nostalgic", I didn't see once post that suggested any desire for a return to the old days.

Posted by: Nativegal at December 29, 2006 9:09 PM

The fort was no joke back in the day and i do mean that in every sense of the word. shout out to the fg crew . killer ben, ju ju, 50 cent, d whiz, barkim, nat, darby, wemo, sha meik, bb, homo, tiz, just, kuwi, supreme, melly, ant, danger, sha boo, dar mel,ah true, divine, c allah, khalif, inf,bar. bartice, chi chi, drip, mr, preme magnetic, juice, lugo, baby rock, kato, nick, pickles, tyheem, hurk, e rock, razell, addidas, pop, tamel, corky, ceaser,g man, divine, jah,nuke, leon cromer, tt cromer, golf, michael combs, kevin tatum, mel, t butt, hash, jr. black, kev,bush, mitch, un, stan, star, umagisty, lil john, shoe, world, steph, punch, calvin klein, a team, tut, levi, 50 grand,ray ray, zeke, beaver, k von, webo, scootie, big h, sha dell, sha do, igod, maurice, brain, did o, chris, t low, uni, kent, born. Yo, everyone i just named was responsible for brooklyns crime rate being so high back in the day, these are some cats that ran the hood all over bk the eny, the ville, the stuy, red hook, farrahgut, marcy, tomkins, breevoort, etc.

Posted by: hellrell at June 12, 2007 4:05 PM

shout out to moco, kulu and the boombastic keepin it reel in Clinton Hill!!!!!!! holla!

Posted by: luco at August 6, 2007 9:52 PM

listen all you fools bikkering over weather or not biggie was from bed-stuy as if its more ghetto then clinton hill or ft. greene first off when you dirve through ft greene you dont even realize when it becomes clinton hill and same goes for when you go from clinton hill into bedstuy and i know were his house was and its literaly a block from bedstuy i always thought that st. james was still bed-stuy ..........pretty soon those neiborhoods wont be so rought anyway all the yuppies and gonna price you moulinyans out of the hood

Posted by: guest at March 23, 2008 3:45 AM

dyker, the ridge, Bensonhurst, SI
we keep you animals in check

Posted by: guest at March 23, 2008 3:50 AM

serious turf wars between clinton hill/ft greene and bed stuy back in the day

Posted by: guest at April 12, 2008 9:46 PM

I live on grand around gates and to be honest this block is white and so are the others around, there's no hood in this place anymore. I mean its not i'll miss or has missed it cause im only 24 and my uncles were the 1' running wild, but just seeing all of these cracker's saddens me now, its like they walk down the block like they been here for years. I mean i didnt grow up in the bedstuy/fortgreene when it was super gangster (Grew up in 46 st edwards street projects) but sh!t was crazy then 2 i mean we used to have to fight kids from marcy coming from school and me being in the middle wasnt kool, but i survived and it feels like now that i've been thrue this stuff and that mahnhatton is starting to get expensive to everybody not just crackers that whites and asians are flooding brooklyn (My girl is filip and shes been here for 9 years so she gets my respect) another thing thats funny is that i notice the white people around here try there damnest not to look at the ethnic people in there faces and speed burst down the block as if "yeah i'll live in this hood<---lol but i wont stroll thrue(through)it" anyway i don't see a change in the fuftre so i guess my views have to change and i need to catch up to old 7 heaven re-runs... And 1 last fun fact is that 2pac used to really come to bigg's house and chill. Sad about what happened to them though.

Posted by: guest at April 23, 2008 11:22 PM

I live on grand around gates and to be honest this block is white and so are the others around, there's no hood in this place anymore. I mean its not like i'll it miss or has missed it cause im only 24 and my uncles were the 1's running wild, but just seeing all of these cracker's saddens me now, its like they walk down the block like they been here for years. I mean i didnt grow up in the bedstuy/fortgreene when it was super gangster (Grew up in 46 st edwards street projects) but sh!t was crazy then 2 i mean we used to have to fight kids from marcy coming from school and me being in the middle wasnt kool, but i survived and it feels like now that i've been thrue this stuff and that mahnhatton is starting to get expensive to everybody not just crackers, that whites and asians are flooding brooklyn (My girl is filip and shes been here for 9 years so she gets my respect) another thing thats funny is that i notice the white people around here try there damnest not to look at the ethnic people in there faces and speed burst down the block as if "yeah i'll live in this hood<---lol but i wont stroll thrue(through)it" anyway i don't see a change in the fuftre so i guess my views have to change and i need to catch up to old 7 heaven re-runs... And 1 last fun fact is that 2pac used to really come to bigg's house and chill. Sad about what happened to them though.

Posted by: guest at April 23, 2008 11:24 PM

my back didtn mean to flood its just that it kept saying post error

Posted by: guest at April 23, 2008 11:27 PM

« Development Watch: Myrtle and Steuben Luxury (Or, More Likely, Not) On Adelphi Fringe »

December 28, 2006

Pinpointing Biggie's Crib

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