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January 25, 2007
420 42nd Street: This One Could Get Ugly
It looks like Sunset Park is not immune from the kind of neighborhood wrecking developers who've been plaguing the South Slope and Greenwood Heights. First brought to our attention in Monday's Sterling Place thread, a section of Sunset Park that heretofore has been composed almost uniformly of 3-story houses is about to get its first non-contextual sore thumb in the form of a full lot-line (or almost 85X100') 10-story, 31-unit building with underground parking and a 29'-high first floor daycare facility. The pile-driving started last Friday, which was a surprise to the neighbors who had never received advanced noticed that is required to be given to owners of adjacent properties. From the correspondence we've been privy to, there's a groundswell of opposition building in the community. Once word gets out that this building, if built, will ruin the park view of historic St. Michael's Church on 4th Avenue and seriously compromise the harbor vista, the whole nabe is likely to be up in arms. Given the scale, this fight could be the ugliest one we've seen yet. Check out the first salvo on YouTube below.
420 42nd Photo Gallery [CCGH] GMAP P*Shark DOB
Goodbye Sunset Park Views [YouTube]
Sunset Park Vista Photos [Bridge & Tunnel Club]
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Comments
Sunset Park is a dump, I'm not sure how any developer could further wreck it.
Posted by: JoshK at January 25, 2007 9:24 AM
What's the penalty for failing to serve notice to adjacent property owners?
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 10:04 AM
In response to JoshK, Sunset Park is not a dump. It is a neighborhood full of tree lined streets with great brick and frame 2-3 story houses that have a lot of original detail that many people like myself appreciate. It has a very involved community board and some long time and new residents that are helping to improve the area, like a new state of the art high school coming this year. Though I could agree there is a dire need for some nice restaurants and shops, it is home for many nice families. You might be shocked at the residents protest to destroy the wonderful vistas of Sunset Park, which they have done in the past when the view from Statue of Minerva and Statue of Libery were threatened.
Posted by: sarahg at January 25, 2007 10:50 AM
Oh no! You won't be able to see the dilapidated church from the deserted park?! Get over yourselves sunset park.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 10:57 AM
You people are completely insane.
The funniest thing about all this is that the people on this board complaining are actually the ones responsible for the building.
This is only happening because of all the ridiculous downzonings in the South Slope. When it happened I repeatedly posted that the downzoning would have no impact on construction because construction is based on financing and demand.
All the downzoning did was shift construction from blocks closer to brownstone Brooklyn to neighborhoods further away.
Why do all you crazies move to NYC and then try and stop anything taller than three floors from being built? This isn't Florence or Brugge.
I strongly support this new midrise. Hopefully it will be the first of many, and the vacant blocks down by the Gowanus will again become vibrant.
Posted by: Crawford at January 25, 2007 11:05 AM
JoshK: typical troll behavior from you. grow up.
Anon 10:57: our second troll of the day...St. Michael's, built in the 1870's, has been earmarked by the NY Times as an unofficial landmark of Sunset Park. Currently it is undergoing a major clean up (though it looked pretty darn good for its age before). So again, grow up.
I agree with sarahg, SSP is a vibrant and distinctive community. Made up of a mix of architecturally interesting brownstones, limestones, brick and frame buildings, it may be as architecturally significant (in places) as our beloved Park Slope. Up to debate. This building will not add to the character of this community. Its out-of-context (10 stories on a 3 story block) and non-contextual nature is obvious.
Either way, this monster will be an eye sore and will not only mar views from the Park and St. Michael's, but also impair the views from SSP's 9/11 Memorial Garden in the park. Hey Mayor Mike, you out there?
Seems some folks (and no NIMBY B.S. here from the peanut gallery of trolls) in the area will be just as concerned about the views as they will be about the size of the structure...and right next to the Community Board too boot.
The developer has every right to build on the old Schaeffer's parking lot, but come on...10 stories? Pretty greedy if you ask me. But, that's most of these fella's MO. Most bang for yer buck.
Oops, now I have opened the door to all you Libertarians out there ;)
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 11:12 AM
Gee, I was waiting for crawford to surface...
Just wait till the rezoning of the rest of the district bucko...
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 11:13 AM
When the Department of City Planning upzoned 4th Avenue and downzoned the side streets in North Park Slope, it didn't bother with South Slope. Who would ever build there?
A frenzied rezoning of South Slope followed. But they didn't bother with Sunset Park. Who would ever build there?
Posted by: WT Economist at January 25, 2007 11:20 AM
Lost in Brooklyn, despite your best efforts, you and your fellow anti-everythings can't halt housing construction.
What selfish NIMBYS like you can do is limit construction in certain politically influential neighborhoods, which leads to a burst of construction in adjacent, less influential neighborhoods.
Posted by: Crawford at January 25, 2007 11:23 AM
Crawford,
Gee, last time I checked SSP has a very active and outspoken Latino community, it being the center of the seat for NYC CM Gonzalez, NYS AM Ortiz and this new building's next to Community Board 7.
How is this community less influential that the South Slope or Greenwood Hts., both 'nabes on the fringes of their districts?
You should do a bit of research first before you throw out your fav NIMBY remarks.
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 11:31 AM
Oh, and the extremely active 5th Ave BID. Forgot to add them...
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 11:33 AM
People need to live somewhere. Not everyone was old enough to have purchase entire houses when they were "cheap". I say build 'em high.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 11:39 AM
LostinBrooklyn, if you think primarily Mexican and Chinese Sunset Park is as influential politically as Park Slope, be my guest.
Furthermore, if you think recent Mexican and Chinese immigrants get all worked up about big buildings, be my guest. People working 60-hour weeks don't have time to pretend fight "The Man". These activities are reserved for Brown grads and aspiring authors in Park Slope.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 11:55 AM
Anon 11:55
Or Pratt grads in GWH. (Brown? "What you talking 'bout Willis?")
I believe any community will (and is, quite frankly) become active and rally around causes that effect them.
Speaking with folks on 42nd/43rd St and through-out the district, they are very concerend about OVER DEVELOPMENT not just development.
Agreed with some of the folks, housing is needed in the area, just not at the expense of the community, the 'nabes character and potentially threats to a beautiful view from the Park.
And let's remember one thing, not all of SSP are new immigrants. There's quite a strong hold of old Brooklynites and 3-4th generation Latinos.
And no one's fighting "the Man" or "Big Brother" here, anon 11:55pm. Just ONE man and his 10 story building.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 12:04 PM
Anon 12:04 pm was me. Guess I should have gone to Brown.
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 12:14 PM
FIGHT OPPRESSIVE CONTEXUAL ZONING!
Once, Sunset Park was farmed - yet someone was brave enough to build in the face of an oudated context. So it is in this case. The good out of the people outweights the selfish desires of a few homeowners who wish to restrict what their neighbors do with their private property.
Say NO to rich homeowners who trample on property rights for their own personal gain, all the while forcing the rest of us who aren't so lucky to live in substandard and crowded homes.
Posted by: Eryximachus at January 25, 2007 12:29 PM
Eryximachus, are you and crawford room mates?
Contextual or non-contextual zoning will ultimately be decided by the community, Community Board 7, City Planning and City Council.
Not you, crawford nor I.
Here's to a healthy, if not odd at times, debate.
I especially love the rich home owners remarks you throw around. I'll betcha you make more than I do :)
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 12:33 PM
Good luck fighting this. With Bloomberg and Marty in command (and ultimately also in command of an out-of-control DOB that has its own rules), I am sorry to say that stopping this project (and 99% of all the new high-rises to come afterwards on 4th avenue from the slope to sunset park) will be like stopping a freight train.
Bloomberg and Markowitz don't care about preservation or context. They don't care about views from beautiful parks or exquisite architecture. They only care about acccomodating growth and a booming construction industry that has little pride it what it creates in the new brooklyn.
And I'll bet the community facility / daycare portion never gets built, and the developer will probably not have to pay any taxes, ever.
If the new building looked good it would make a big difference. but of course it will look like shit. Bummer.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 12:38 PM
Anonymous 10:04 AM
Sorry to not have posted on this further. Reality, nothing.
In oder to pull permits, the contractor/developer needs to show DOB proof that they have contacted adjacent properties, normally return receipt letters. In this case, they lied to DOB (big surprise) as none of the adjacent properties on 42nd/43rd St., including the Community Board, received such a letter.
Will DOB do anything? Prob not. Could they hypothetically issue a SWO or fine them, yep.
Will they, again prob not. Hope that helps...
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 12:40 PM
10 stories just off a wide avenue with a subway line? In New York City? You must be joking! Buildings must be shorter than 3 stories, so we can suburbanize the city!
Come ON. So a part of the view will be gone. Views come and go in this city...it's been that way since the first skyscraper rose downtown. Suck it up and get on with your life....ever hear of a hobby?
Build more I say.
Posted by: hi! at January 25, 2007 12:45 PM
12:45,
Don't be dumb.
What people are angry about is that rules are broken, adjacent buildings are damaged and the DOB just shrugs and says "we're at a loss to exlplain how THAT happened."
If most of these guys did their jobs right and respected their neighbors and their neighbor's properties, then probably no one really would give a shit about a 10 story building.
The view is important, but I think it's the free pass(es) from the DOB and the ridiculous tax breaks and the "fuck you" attitudes from most of the contractors that make this problem a real problem.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 1:14 PM
actually, on a lot like that, which more or less abuts fourth avenue, ten stories is not obscenely tall (though anything higher should be forbidden). I would welcome an attractive, architecturally imaginative building building that people with normal incomes could afford to live in. But the fact that it would obstruct the harbor view from the park hould be enough to halt contruction altogether. I really hope the good people of sunset park can figure out a way to stand up to this sort of greed.
Posted by: pfa at January 25, 2007 1:47 PM
I live in Sunset Park. I strongly support midrise construction on 4th Ave. At the same time, I would like the view of NY Harbor from the top of Sunset Park to be preserved. Are those two goals irreconcilable?
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 2:23 PM
Change is a part of life in any city- especially NY. I am a Pratt grad, and lived in SSP after leaving school (it was on the edge @ 17th st. & 5th). I would only like to add this comment: the name Sunset Park comes from the fact that sunsets viewed over the bay was the bug draw to the area when it was first 'developed'. Having towers mixed willy-nilly among street scale row houses does not a neighborhood make, I beleive...
Posted by: Jim McAuliffe at January 25, 2007 2:55 PM
Sorry, meant to say big, not bug...
Posted by: Jim mcauliffe at January 25, 2007 2:56 PM
Anon 2:23 PM
I think you can support new development in SSP and keep the views from the Hill...just not at 12 stories (as my better half has corrected me)...it is 10 stories, PLUS 2 penthouses and bulkheads...that does not bode well for the Park views, not the residents in SSP.
Solution, build (it's a huge lot, 100X100 ft.) lower. Still make yer $$, provide housing, day care facilities, etc. but preserve the character of the 'nabe and the views.
What is wrong with that? at 5-6 stories, while big for the block, would only partially loom over the old court house (Police/CB7) and only partially block the view of St. Michael's.
Solution? Not sure...
Posted by: lostinbrooklyn at January 25, 2007 3:18 PM
I stand by what I said above. Sunset Park is a pit. I remember getting lost there once when I was trying to get to Home Depot by the freeway. I was new to NYC then and couldn't believe that a neighborhood could look like that in a first world country.
It's inconsistent to praise the virtues of beautiful Park Slope brownstones and nice green streets and then to opine that new development could wreck Sunset Park. Short of turning it into a landfill or crematorium it would be difficult to do so.
Posted by: JoshK at January 25, 2007 4:38 PM
JoshK -- just the most recent addition to the a**hole brigade that insists on posting comments here. Why don't you just return to whatever part of flyover country you came from.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 4:44 PM
If you think Sunset Park is only the area around Home Depot and the BQE then you really can't comment on what it is like. Go up to the park, you will see that it is nothing like the area you got lost in.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 25, 2007 5:56 PM
Let's us forget what they are building on the site for one second to ask this question. Why is Brooklyn still being plagued by irresponsible contractors? What is this project worth? 10-15 million dollars?Can't send out a two paragraph 5day notice to adjacent property owners? Can't work within the 7am till 6pm M-F work week? Can't walk next door to Community Board offices and say hello? I say fuck them then. Release the nimbys in full force! Where do I contribute to the youtube video fund.
Posted by: supernimby at January 25, 2007 6:36 PM
I don't see what the big deal is, it's only Sunset Park. Just because it's the only neighborhood you can afford doesn't mean it's a nice place.
Posted by: Anonymous at January 26, 2007 12:11 AM
Sure, Sunset Park is not a hipster paradise. However with new large projects like this one it may have a chance.
Posted by: anon at January 26, 2007 8:51 AM
It's called progress people. Get used to the way the world works. New buildings replace old ones.
Posted by: hr at January 26, 2007 12:26 PM
I live across the street and they are disturbing my sleep. grrrr.
Posted by: iwantsleep at January 30, 2007 10:21 AM
sunset park is a dump.i've lived there most of my life and was more then glad when i was able to move out a few years ago. i feel nothing but sympathy for those who have no choice but to live there.with that said, speaking from strictly an architectural point of view, there are many blocks with handsome brownstones in sunset.55th between fourth and fifth comes to mind.unfortunatley the human element in sunset makes even the nicest looking blocks downright unbearable to live in.that's not to say that sunset doesn't have great people living there. it does.but unfortunately they are not the ones that set the tone for the neighborhood.
Posted by: squingili at February 20, 2007 2:51 PM
Areas improve all the time, like Williamsburg and Clinton Hill. The only thing missing from Sunset Park is some nice restaurants and bars.
Other than that, I think the area has great protential to be come a vibrant neighborhood. The express subway line on 4th Ave will get you to Manhattan in under 30 minutes and it has a great view of lower Manhattan. The rent there is still relatively inexpensive and the area is safe.
Posted by: Gentrification at March 12, 2007 10:40 AM
Josh K, you are definately a moron. Move back to where ever the hell you came from because you obviously don't know what the hell ur talking about. Maybe you are thinking about the gowanus mess that is 3rd ave. Don't insulut the residents of Sunset Park, it is a very impressive neighborhood.
Posted by: Gerry B at March 13, 2007 5:29 PM
For those who want coffee houses, bars and all the things that make Park Slope look like Park Slope, GO TO PARK SLOPE! Sunset Park is not like any other neighborhood. It has its own identity and will remain this way.
Posted by: Gerry B at March 13, 2007 5:33 PM
All I can say is that I've lived in Sunset Park my whole life. It is not the same anymore, and changes need to be made. Slowly, people are being driven away, not just by lack of housing, but the same ILLEGAL immigrant overcrowding going on... THAT and not the construction of needed housing, is what is taking away whatever charm the neighborhood had at one time. There are bigger issues and problems in the area that are largely ignored, and I don't hold my breath on those issues ever being addressed by our local hacks (Ortiz is a joke, IMO) errr politicians.
I'd like to see some bookstores and shops, things for kids to do, and less bodegas/drug pushing fronts and 99 cent stores.
Posted by: Big D at March 23, 2007 12:44 AM
Heres a voice never seen or heard on here....im a small time developer putting up a five floor condo in williamsburg, eight units. im a normal post hipster from twenty five years of living in tribeca and the lower east side when i used to step over bodies on the street to go home at night. you guys can speculate all you want about how the process with the dob works, but ill tell you this from first hand experience....my site has been closed down TEN TIMES in two years...thats right, its taken me two years to get the building two thirds done. They harrasss me endlessly about the most minor stuff, the inspectors never cease coming at all hours of the day and night, i get fined up the yazzoo for things i have no control over, and i cant put ina screw without hundreds of forms filed and triple filed and notorized and hand delivered by a lawyer at three hundred dollars an hour. So i just dont know what the hell you think your talking about. Nothing can be done in Williamsburg, anyway, without every i dotted and every t crossed a hundred times for the DOB to give permission for ANYTHING to procede. thanks.
Posted by: lechail at January 1, 2008 7:50 PM
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