House of the Day: 484 East 17th Street

I've admired this house ever since i moved into the neighborhood 3 years ago. It is, in my opinion, the absolute nicest house in Ditmas Park and really needs to be seen. What you don't see in the pics is the scrollwork detailing in the exterior woodwork above the windows. There are about 5 or so other really really nice homes on this specific block but this one is the nicest.

Regarding price, my first thought when i saw the listing last week was that they'll get it. Or at least close. It's a really nice house.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 12:27 PM

Get a life folks this aint going for ask. The last sale on this property was on 10/04 for $1.177 million. What justifies the $833K price bump? Did they hide gold bars somewhere in the house?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 12:56 PM

I love my house but it suddenly seems like a crowded dump in comparison. I've lived in Brooklyn for 20 years and am still not sold on Ditmas though. Other than the great houses, it doesn't look like there is much going on there.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 1:38 PM

Agree with the last poster. The neighborhood has increased in value since it last sold and these people clearly put in a ton of money and a ton of work and have excellent taste. That is what justifies the price increase. If I was still looking, I would be all over this house at this price. Other houses that are MUCH smaller, with MUCH less character, in MUCH worse shape and with NO modern updates have been selling at 1.2-1.3. It will cost those buyers a pretty penny and take them a year or so of living in a construction zone to turn their houses into anything that looks remotely like this and even then, it will never be this size and this unique on the outside. That is worth $500-$600K, in my opinion. Also - people are calling 2800 sq. ft. - 18 inch wide, complete dump brownstones going for $1.6 "deals" on this site. Some, like me, prefer houses, and this one is magnificent and rare.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 1:41 PM

how much is the house worth TODAY based on current market comparables and the size/condition/amenities of the house??

i don't see what the relevance of the previous purchase price is AT ALL.

just b/c you know how to use PropertyShark does not make you a real estate expert.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 1:47 PM

Wowie what a beautiful house. Wish i had the dough man o' man!

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 1:54 PM

1:47, do you know how many comparable houses have even sold in that area for more than $1.5 million? As far as i know zero. They'll be lucky if they get $1.6.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 2:13 PM

They'll easily get the ask on this. That work is at least $500K if not more. There are no comparables because nothing has come on the market in this good condition, but a big house in ditmas park proper that needs work would command 1.5 so this looks kind of cheap.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 2:21 PM

The point is there are no comparable houses in the area. Most of these are smaller and need a ton of work because they have been in the same family for years and the area is just gentrifying. Those are going for $1.2 on average lately. This doesn't seem so out of the ball park. On the neighborhood - it does not have a big commercial area and is a bit of a walk from the park. There are some poor neighborhoods around it too. The public schools have great gifted programs and the community base is really starting to work on them, but a lot of people in the neighborhood still send their children to private school. This house isn't for someone who wants to live in a busy city area with great restaurants or needs to feel like every surrounding area is upper class. It is for someone who wants a diverse area, a close drive/bus or subway ride to the busy areas, with a lot of space, a very tight neighborhood of families and a tree lined, leafy street with children playing in the backyards. If a house of this size and this condition were in a neighborhood surrounded with upper class neighborhoods and good restaurants, it would have an asking price of $4 million.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 2:22 PM

Comparables dont matter if your a cash buyer. But if you're dealing with a bank, comparables are everything. The appraiser doesn't really care whether you have waterworks fixtures and a viking range. Furthermore, appraisers dont give a rats ass about how much other properties are being listed for. They want to know about ACTUAL sales in the neigborhood. There are ZERO comparables to support this price.

The small number of sales in the neighborhood will actually end up hurting the seller. Of the handful of sales that have transacted over the last 3 years, their purchase on 10/04 for $1.177 was one of them.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 2:36 PM

Um 2:36, an appraiser these days will basically give you any appraisal you want and use any excuse to do so, including "excellent condition" and "top of the line fixtures." Every gentrifying neighborhood has issues with comparables and it is pretty much never a problem if you can show you have the stream of income to support the mortgage. If the NY real estate market crumbles, this will change, but it hasn't yet.

Have you ever had an appraisal done? It always comes out to the asking price or slightly above. Do you think this is a coincidence or that people always pay exactly what a property is worth? I bought in one of the Victorian Flatbush neighborhoods two years ago and paid more than anyone had at the time (by quite a bit)for a house in good shape - which is not so easy to find here. I had NO issue with the appraiser or the bank. I made more than enough money to pay the mortgage and had a good credit history. They didn't think I would walk out and kill my credit history if the market tanked for a while. The market value of my house, by the way, was just appraised by the city (who are notoriously low appraisers) at well over the price I paid.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 2:44 PM

This house is perfect.... the one that everyone with money looking in Ditmas Park holds out for. Yes, the only complaint might be... wish it was in PPS, which is closer to the Park and the Slope.

This house will sell for very close to ask. It has all new SHINGLES and ROOF people. I've been in it - it's enormous. No corners have been cut. It's the most tasteful reno I've ever seen out here, on one of the grandest homes available.... It's not too close to Church or Flatbush. There are no falling down shacks nearby. This is the BIG ONE in Ditmas... The one everyone will deep pockets has been dreaming of. If I had a couple hundred thousand more to play with, I would offer ask.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 2:58 PM

This house is perfect.... the one that everyone with money looking in Ditmas Park holds out for. Yes, the only complaint might be... wish it was in PPS, which is closer to the Park and the Slope.

This house will sell for very close to ask. It has all new SHINGLES and ROOF people. I've been in it - it's enormous. No corners have been cut. It's the most tasteful reno I've ever seen out here, on one of the grandest homes available.... It's not too close to Church or Flatbush. There are no falling down shacks nearby. This is the BIG ONE in Ditmas... The one everyone will deep pockets has been dreaming of. If I had a couple hundred thousand more to play with, I would offer ask.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 3:17 PM

So let me get this straight folks. Your not buying this house because of the neighborhood amenities. Your not buying this house for the fantastic neighborhood schools. Your definitely not buying this house for the easy/convenient commute to work. Your not buying this house for the huge yard or distance from your neighbor.

So why exactly is worth $1.9 million?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 3:26 PM

I think all of that was addressed above. If Ditmas Park had all the things going for it that you describe, this place would be worth twice as much. People are buying it because it's a beautiful, spacious family home in a neighborhood packed with young families. If you can afford the price tag, you can afford a private school.

My husband works long hours. He wants to hop on a subway and be home in 35 minutes. He does not want to worry about the last train to Westchester or wherever. We have four kids. Aparment living just doesn't cut it anymore. I work at home and need an office. I have last-minute meetings in Manhattan.

We are the market here.

Sure if I had $4 million to play with I might look elsewhere... But I wouldn't spend $0 in the 'burbs.

It's a brave new world of families who just won't settle for the sticks.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 3:32 PM

3:26, if you don't get it, it isn't the right house or neighborhood for you. This house is almost twice the size of a brownstone, but with natural light all around, perfectly done with amazing original detail retained, has a garage, driveway and back yard and is an easy commute to Manhattan. It is also in a neighborhood that seems to be improving every day and has a very strong community of welcoming neighbors. The bad things you mention are true (other than the commute to work - which is not bad), but believe it or not, in this day, age and area, $1.9 million does not buy you absolute perfection - just look at some of the other things going for this (2-3 bedrooms on ugly blocks in the lower east side and small brownstones that need work in Brooklyn Heights).

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 3:54 PM

Anon 3:32 Ditmas Park is the sticks.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 3:55 PM

No it's not. Westchester is. Get some perspective.

And that's precisely why there's a market for this house in this price range.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 3:56 PM

Crime stats in this neighborhood are hard because it includes all of Flatbush (a huge area with some pretty bad parts - like lumping the upper east side with everything up to 180th street). There is a community patrol and I've lived here for a while and heard of some things stolen from people's garages but not much else.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 4:07 PM

this house is overpriced by at least $300K if there is no alarm system.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 5:16 PM

Anyone know what's coming to the former Shoe Repair shop on Cortelyou (next to Belle and Maxie's)? I heard DUB pies.

Also, how 'bout a gym in the former furniture store space... Lots of new mommies out here who'd love the convenience.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 5:29 PM

I don't get the obsession of having to live next door to resturants and bars. Why would you want to anyway? Those blocks are noisy and congested. I grew in Brooklyn so maybe I am used to just hoping on the subway and going a few stops to places I wanted to hang out, but as long the commute is not 2 hours plus or something ridiculous like that, I just don't see the big deal about this.

Also the commute to Manhattan from Ditmas Park is soooo convenient. Union Square is appx. 20-30 minutes on the Q train. And I prefer taking the B or Q train over the A or G any day of the week. Those lines and people riding it are grimy.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 5:47 PM

I don't get the obsession of having to live next door to resturants and bars. Why would you want to anyway? Those blocks are noisy and congested. I grew up in Brooklyn so maybe I am used to just hopping on the subway and going a few stops to places I wanted to hang out, but as long the commute is not 2 hours plus or something ridiculous like that, I just don't see the big deal about this.

Also the commute to Manhattan from Ditmas Park is soooo convenient. Union Square is appx. 20-30 minutes on the Q train. And I prefer the B or Q lines over the A or G any day of the week. Those lines and people riding it are grimy.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 5:49 PM

Agreed.. once you have a family, it's not that important to live walking distance to restuarants and bars. You go so infrequently that you can just drive or subway it. And from Ditmas it's a 15 min drive to Park Slope, etc, where it's easy to park on a given evening. Also, there are plenty of supermarkets with parking lots including Pathmark, Fairway, etc.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 6:00 PM

15 minute drive to park slope? it is 3 miles, do you mean a 15 minute bike ride?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 7:14 PM

Agreed 7:15 - but bikes don't have to wait in traffic, so may be fair. I live in PPS and it is about a 5-7 minute drive - 20 minute walk to Park Slope. I LOVE this neighborhood and am shocked by the hipsters I see walking down my block and other around here these days. I am starting to feel too old and lame to live here now ;)

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 8:28 PM

Unfortunately Cortelyou Road doesn't have the real estate/building stock that Smith Street or 5th Avenue has. The storefronts are tiny and on angles. The north side of Cortelyou has the sides of Victorian houses that have been neglected or horribly bricked over. And now there's the abomination going in on the east corner of Stratford, a "lovely" modern condo complex (can't tell yet if there's fedders holes), complete with balconies facing Cortelyou. Not to mention the the east corner of Stratford which now has a Corcoran "for development" sign hangin on it. I shudder to think about what will come to fruition there?

Cortelyou Road needs a Main Street America program to save it from becoming even more of a mish mash without quality spaces available for the shops we desperately need.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 8:30 PM

To be fair, only one private house abuts Cortelyou Road between Stratford and East 17th Street... In fact, the newest, hippest shops or on exactly the side of the street you're complaining about - Belle and Maxie's, Ackerson Wines, Brooklyn Hearth. There are several large storefronts. One is currently empty with a "for rent" sign hanging in the window - on the south side of Cortelyou on the corner of Stratford. Rumor was it was going to be a bank. A gym would do nicely there.

As for condos on Cortelyou and Westminster, north side - that lot has been empty for decades. If the building harmonizes with the existing neighborhood, that's good news. Condos, if they don't threaten the existing period homes, increase population density, and more people means more money spent in the stores on Cortelyou Road.

The block of stores with the "for development sign" on it has been used as a storage facility for years (antiques). The iron grill is down 24 hours a day. A total eyesore. Such a use adds nothing to the vibrancy of Cortelyou Road. A well done condo development would be a boon in many ways. I'm all for development when it's done in context and doesn't threaten the existing architecture.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 6, 2007 9:51 PM

Bill - I am raising two young daughters in this neighborhood and could not be happier. We came from park slope and find this neighborhood so friendly and open. My girls have a lot of friends here, tons of playdates in the playrooms everyone with kids in this neighborhood has, etc... I would absolutely check out the house if I were you. I wish it were available when we bought a few years ago!

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 7:08 AM

Well actually 9:51 there are sides of houses on Cortelyou at Westminster, Argyle and Rugby, and there's the one vinyl clad house next to new construction at Stratford, so thats 4 houses, in 5 blocks on a retail street.

Look I'm all for development too, my point is that if the residents, shopkeepers, pols and organizations leave it up to the new breed of "developer", it will not be in context, improve curb appeal or retail. The condo's on Stratford evidence that already. The developer completely disregarded calls for a building that fit the history of the neighborhood and now we'll all be staring at barbecues and lawn chairs on the balconies facing the street. I think its safe to assume that the developer that buys the warehouse across Stratford will not be building a nice red brick building with any nod to the history of the neighborhood, either.

Cortelyou Road needs a masterplan that takes into account the need for a great retail "Main Street" for Victorian Flatbush.

Rebuild the library building with 6 or 8 stories of apartments and new nicer, maybe 2 story library. Rebuild the C-Town with a 6 or 8 story building, maybe even extend it by removing the recently vandalized/bricked-over house on Rugby. Have continuous 6 or 8 story brick buildings from Coney Island Ave. to 17th Street, with good size retail at street level and nice apartments above.

I'm not anti Cortelyou, I'm Cortelyou hopeful and bless all the new merchants coming in. But I believe that to really have the retail strip that we all dream about, we'll need to do more than just encouraging the rental of current space.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 8:31 AM

Bill 10:31-
I posted earlier in the thread about this block but I'll repeat what I wrote. This house is on East 17th between Ditmas and Dorchester. To my mind it is the nicest block in Ditmas Park. Furthermore, this particular house, while probably the nicest on the block, sits among 3-4 houses in a row that are really nice. It's a solid block. Go take a look.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 8:53 AM

It is the nicest block in Ditmas Park proper (PPS also has pristine blocks.

8:31 - how do you set up such a plan, re: Main Street America?

Also, I've been asking everyone locally and on this site, what are those condos going to look like? They were going to be 8 stories... Now 5 with shops beneath. Do you know more about who is behind them, what they've done before? Please, please telll us!

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 9:13 AM

It is a great place to live. I am thrilled there are a bunch of people who do not want to live here.

I have people asking me all the time what is coming up for sale on my block.

One of the things that makes it great here is that the people are not as nasty as a lot of "new mommmies" in park slope who have nannies so they can get their nails done and buy prada.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 10:34 AM

For those of you like Bill who are wondering what its like to raise kids in the nabe, a good place to start is the flatbush family network. It pretty much gives a good flavor for what's going on including open play groups for 2-3 different ages every week as well music class, etc schedules.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 10:59 AM

Agreed - if you are thinking of raising a family in this neighborhood, check out flatbush family network. It is a yahoo group. It gives you a good sense of how welcoming the families in the neighborhood are - we take turns hosting different age play groups at our houses, etc... Also - on the Main Street thing, I believe the neighborhood business association was granted funds by the city a few months ago to put in a clock in front of the library and add old school lamps and cobblestone sidewalks to Cortelyou Road. I saw the plans and it looks like it is going to be very pretty, but I'm not sure when the work is scheduled to begin. I assume in the spring or summer.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 11:17 AM

Work has already begun. The south side of Cortelyou has cobblestone sidewalks, but not the north side. Almost all of the lights have been replaced with period fixtures. As for the landscaping, clocks and benches... we'll see.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 11:31 AM

Ditmas Park absolutely rocks!!! I love it and would never leave for any reason!!

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 11:37 AM

You can see the sketches for the Cortelyou Road improvements here
http://livinginvictorianflatbush.blogspot.com/2006/10/look-into-future-of-cortelyou-road.html#links

Posted by: Anonymous at February 7, 2007 11:48 AM

Oh Boy.....

My blood starts boiling everytime I hear "Is it safe". What leads people to believe it's not safe...oh, it must be all of the non-white people. It must be the lack of bugaboo's and Starbucks and the fact that we only have one kids store. What, No baby Gap??!!!

And about the condos...do your research before you launch into a negative tirade about Fedders air conditioners. The developer lives in this neighborhood (he even chose to raise his three kids here) has built several other condo units in Brooklyn including 60 Tiffany Place all of which, are beautifully designed. I know it's easy to make a bad guy out of a developer, just like it's easy to assume that black people equal crime but it just ain't so my friends.

I happily cashed in on my small pad in Park Slope, bought a house(yes, the heating bills are high but I don't have to pay for parking tickets anymore) in Ditmas Park and am happy to be living around all kinds of people, not just the smug and righteous parents of Park Slope.
Listen, if you were the prom queen or football quarterback in high school, this area probably isn't for you but I personally, can't think of a better place to raise an open and well-adjusted kid.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 8, 2007 10:57 AM

Picket Fence is for sale for the person above who has chef friends who are interested in opening up a restaurant

Posted by: Anonymous at February 8, 2007 10:59 AM

Picket Fence is for sale? Since when?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 8, 2007 11:11 AM

PF has been for sale for less then a week. If anyone is interested, just give the owners a call. Grahm and Chelsea

Posted by: Anonymous at February 8, 2007 11:50 AM

Wow - first, to 10:57, I was the prom queen and I live in this neighborhood and love it, which tells you how welcoming and diverse it is ;)

Second - so many people showed interest in this house I was told they canceled the open house because it would have been a mad house and are setting up appointments to see it instead.

Third - Picket Fence is for sale? Have to say I am not surprised and a bit happy. I really liked the owners but they just couldn't get it together. Kept trying to give it another shot but the service never got any better and my burger never got less frozen in the center. Nevertheless, the place was always pretty crowded. If a well run restaurant was put in there - it would clean up. This neighborhood is dying for good restaurants and bars.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 8, 2007 1:06 PM

I think ppser should buy it and show us all how its done

Posted by: Anonymous at February 8, 2007 1:17 PM

Yes, the owners are nice but man, did I have several disappointing meals. Not to mention the absolute horrible service. I also, tried and tried to support them as they were the only shop in town for a while but eventually had to stop going there. As The Farm has proved, there is a great need for restaurants in this neighborhood and people will come out of their big houses to eat but they won't do it if the product is bad and service worse. Someone good, please buy this place up!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at February 9, 2007 1:46 PM

i'm a bit of a "new mommy" myself with 2 kids and currently living in DUMBO, previously Bklyn Heights. Are there classes for kids in this neighborhood, like "Music Together" and "Aardvarcks"? How about a playground? Thanks.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 9, 2007 9:39 PM

how do i get this site to refresh so i can see updated comments?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 9, 2007 9:45 PM

Yes - they have Aardvarks and Music Together in the neighborhood, as well as dance and movement classes, gymnastics classes, etc... There is a playground on Cortelyou (not so great though - I wish they would budget to make it a bit nicer) and, if you are in PPS anyway, Vanderbilt Playground in the park is not too far of a walk. The beauty is that it isn't such a pain to drive places either because you know you don't have to look for parking when you get home - just pull into the driveway.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 10, 2007 10:35 AM

To 2/7, 10:57... I know the developer lives in the neighborhood, all the more reason to be upset and disgusted at the completely out of context, "modern" building with sliding glass doors, fedders holes, balconies facing the street and other tasteless, not beautifully designed features. Can't wait to see the color of the bricks.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 13, 2007 9:58 AM