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March 6, 2007

Bay Ridge Church Selling Its Soul For Condos

bayridgechurch07.jpg
Given the amount of money that organized religion has plowed into building grandiose architecture throughout history, it was interesting to read Reverend Robert Emerick's rationalization of why the Bay Ridge United Methodist Church should forsake its own architectural history in favor of condos: "Even if we had the money we shouldn't be putting it all into repairs," he said. "That's not what Jesus had in mind." That's right, Rev, and Jesus was all about condos! Despite the efforts of preservationists, the 108-year-old green church is close to being sold for $12 million to developers who would build an apartment building on the 24,000-square-foot lot in addition to a new small church for the existing congregation. If art has no connection to spirituality, why stop at destroying the church's architecture? What about music and fine art? Boo, hiss.
Sacrificing Sanctuary for Condos [NY Daily News]
Forgotten Tour 20: Bay Ridge [Forgotten NY]




Posted by Brownstoner at 9:59 AM | Comments (24)
Categories: Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, Development, Real Estate

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there's a reason old churches fall into disrepair, and that's usually due to dwindling congregations, but hey, if it's 19th century, let's keep it! i'm curious, brownstoner, when was the last time YOU went to church? not questioning your religion (i don't care), but why should a building's owners maintain it as a relic if it's not being used? for the benefit of a bunch of secular yuppies so their 'nabe looks ye olde part?

Posted by: tuesday at March 6, 2007 10:12 AM

mr b:

i used to live 3 houses down from this church on ovington ave in a beautiful limestone. the church is huge, w/ a school attached, a huge parking lot and an 1899 limestone used by the priest or someone like that. in any case, i called the brokers, mackey knasal and asked if the church would be willing to sell the limestone separately since it really would be bad if they developed that lot as it abuts to a row of other limestones...i was willing to pay market price...they weren't willing to sell as it would only mean they were giving up precious development rights (little as they were compared to the rest of the site).

in any case, forget the church...a beautiful old limestone will be torn down instead of keeping it.

Posted by: what bubble? at March 6, 2007 10:13 AM

We have no problem with the church being adapted to an alternative use--things change, we know that. But there's something disgusting about a church flushing its heritage down the toilet for top dollar when finding a buyer who would maintain the original structure would generate easily enough to build a smaller, new structure somewhere nearby with enough left over to help ends meet.

Posted by: brownstoner at March 6, 2007 10:17 AM

exactly mr b...see my post above where i tried to buy at market rates and preserve the existing limestone townhouse on the property...and the church told me to take a hike.

Posted by: what bubble? at March 6, 2007 10:19 AM

The same thing happened to St. Saviour's in Maspeth and my comments about that transaction fall along the lines of Brownstoner's statement. Why can't the amazing architecture of churches be preserved and the facility re-adapted for residential use?

Posted by: Christina Wilkinson at March 6, 2007 10:23 AM

christina...why can't it be? b/c if they do as you and mr b suggest they won't make as much money and that, in the end, is the only thing that matters. now, if that church is telling us all $12MM is going to charitable causes and is willing to pledge that, then maybe they have a point...but they haven't said those exact words.

Posted by: what bubble? at March 6, 2007 10:26 AM

I win megamillions tonight, I save the church. You heard it here.

www.forgotten-ny.com

Posted by: Kevin Walsh at March 6, 2007 10:29 AM

what about turning it into a zany nightclub ala limelight?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 6, 2007 10:36 AM

Dear Mr. B., I feel your pain. In fact, I think you are in good company with many Catholic parishioners who are heartbroken about recent closures of many of their architecturally beautiful churches and the loss of community that involves. I don't think that it is necessarily a matter of denying the aesthetic connection to spirituality that many of these churches are closing (or selling the structures for condos), but that these beautiful old churches are very expensive to maintain and sometimes cannot be supported by the communities they serve. I am not sure what this pastor meant exactly, but in an awkward way perhaps he was saying that the cost of maintaining the structure might drain limited resources from things that were more directly beneficial to the congregation. I don't know. I was part of a parish once in Brooklyn which worked tirelessly to save its stunning 150 year old church and its small but vibrant congregation in the face of shifting demographics and a shrinking congregation. It could have been too much for these people in Bay Ridge, I don't know. It's sad though. For me, it would be a strange living there - I could never dance at the Limelight either.

Posted by: donatella at March 6, 2007 10:37 AM

The pastor of my church (the thriving and magnificently renovated little St. Boniface in the heart of Metrotech) has a great saying: "Show me your budget, and I'll show you your theology."

Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at March 6, 2007 10:56 AM

This is just a natural continutaion of the trend that has swept bay ridge in the last 3 years. The neigborhood has become completeley awash, AWASH, in Fedders.

Its truly happened with breathtaking speed. In fact, if you go onto Microsoft virtual earth, and scan over bay ridge, you'll still see many attractive Victorian mansions and other properties that simply aren't there anymore. There was a particulary gorgeos Victorian on the corner of 75 st & 10 ave, sitting on a green 100x100 lot. Gone, gone, gone. Replaced by a hardcore Fedders from our friends at Bricolage. I do, however, take some small consolation that several of thier units have been languishing unsold for over a year.

Guess the developers are running out of Victorians to knock down, and are going after churches now. I also like the way they are tossing out the school, despite pretty serious overcrowding conditions in the local public schools from the recent surge in immigration.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 6, 2007 10:59 AM

Condos for Christ? - for the oldtimers out there.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 6, 2007 11:37 AM

Condos for Christ? - for the oldtimers out there.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 6, 2007 11:38 AM

Here we go with another church/religion bullshoot, Church the first/worst corporation ever invented, give me a break and belive in science and yourself.....

Posted by: Anonymous at March 6, 2007 11:44 AM

I LOVED that house on BR pkwy. I can't believe it's gone! I moved from BR to LIC about 3 years ago. I lived 2 blocks away from this church. It is so beautiful and I can't believe it's being demolished. Why can't they demolish the school next door? I would support a 12 story building there if it meant saving the church.

And re: the fedders onslaught, I'm so glad we rezoned so we slowed the process, but homes are still being demolished. A nice one on 68th on my old block is now an ugly new building. Have you been on 91st between 3rd and 4th? OUCH!

I understand some houses are going to go. But they are replaced with absolute shit, and THATS what we should have fought; design quality, in addition to a downzoning. The only decent new building is the glass beauty on Shore Road....if only they all had a budget like that, for REAL bricks and CENTRAL AIR.

Bay Ridge was once beautiful. Now it's just beautiful in pockets. The 76th street step street is my favorite.

Posted by: hi! at March 6, 2007 2:14 PM

That church is about the only thing pleasing to the eye left on that corner. Typical of the irony/absurdity of architectural preservation in Bay Ridge, the adjacent block (bet. Ridge and 3rd) is about to become a historical landmark. Nevermind that several 6 story apartments already dwarf what's left of the original brownstone row. It's hodge podge; neither here nor there and generally uninspired - like dining on 3rd Ave (ouch!).

Posted by: ovingtoner at March 6, 2007 3:19 PM

Tear it down. Alot of bad vibes in that place with all the little boys that were diddled in there. Better yet, hand it over to the victims and let them decide what to do with it.

Posted by: anfrea at March 6, 2007 3:31 PM

borough of churches, eh?

Posted by: pfa at March 6, 2007 4:16 PM

Oh Lord (pun intended). Brooklyn was developed by land speculators who first built churches for free and then lured congregations over to buy in the areas surrounding the church. Now you're upset because the congregations are turning the tables?

Where I'm from congregations (mostly fundamentalists) waste billions on sanctuaries while people in their communities go hungry and without proper education. If this congregation thinks they can better serve the Gospel by gettinng top dollar for their property, then you have little room to judge them.

As for what bubble, why should they break up the parcel to suit you? Would you do the same for a buyer who made a similar offer? Come on.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 6, 2007 4:34 PM

"serve the Gospel by gettinng top dollar for their property"


hmmm you could be on to something with that comment.. Realtors please take note.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 6, 2007 5:38 PM

For about a year I attended Visitation church in Red Hook. Its a beautiful church, one of the nicest in Brooklyn, I'd argue. But it's falling apart. I always wondered why the preservationist will do so much to save the buildings in the neighborhood but do so little to save the institutions that make up the neighborhood.

Just think of how many pictures you've seen on-line of the Revere Sugar Dome being demolished and how many pictures you've seen of the stain glass at Visitation.

Posted by: ex-Redhooky at March 7, 2007 10:36 AM

I live just down the street from the church in question here, and have heard the "stop building Fedders already" argument over and over and it's wearing thin on me. As a renter, I am itching to be able to pay a mortgage rather than rent, and condos can be a nice entry point for first-time buyers in this city. Real estate is tight and expensive in Bay Ridge, but I love living here, and when it's time for my husband and I to buy, we'll probably have to leave. I say bring on the condos - though I do hope they are built with more concern for the neighborhood aesthetics than others have been.

As for budgets and morals - yes, I agree budgets show where your prioritites are. But as a Christian, your priority should not be preserving a moneypit. It should be spreading the Gospel, and if your building drains your ability to do that, you should shed it. Open the Bible - Jesus didn't send his disciples out to preach with a full complement of camping gear and the first century equivalent of an RV. They took one tunic and set out to preach and serve, dependent on the generosity of their communities.

Posted by: CurrentRidger at March 14, 2007 5:55 AM

My church would like to move into the building and take over, but 12 million is quite steep. Maybe we can make a deal. tony@2efc.org

Posted by: Agabus at April 25, 2007 4:31 PM

Care about the Green Church? Join the fight to save it!
SaveTheGreenChurch@yahoo.com.

Posted by: Kip at May 13, 2007 9:11 PM

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