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April 5, 2007

Tower Plans for Washington Ave Ruffling Feathers

Though the one-story paper warehouse that used to run from 163 Washington Avenue, just north of Myrtle, all the way through the block to Hall Street was demolished months ago, news of what is planned in its stead has only recently trickled out to nearby Clinton Hill residents, many of whom aren't pleased with the idea of a 16-story tower imposing itself on the neighborhood of three- and four-story homes. We also hear that local politicians aren't happy with the fact that the plan for the building does not include any affordable housing. Instead, it's an as-of-right, unsubsidized project. Designed by the ubiquitous Karl Fischer, the current plan filed with the DOB calls for a 177-foot-high structure with 49 residential units. We can certainly sympathize with the neighbors who are less than thrilled with the shadows and competition for parking spaces that this will bring (and those whose adjacent properties have already suffered damage from the demo process); the developer also has done nothing to engage with the community. To play devil's advocate, though, this could be a shot of adrenaline for the businesses of Myrtle Avenue and help bring some life to what is still a bit of a desolate area between the Clinton Hill Historic District and the Navy Yard. We gather that some people are trying to organize an opposition to the building but don't have any specific information yet. Anyone have renderings or contact info for the opposition? Update: Anyone not pleased with the current plan may contact buildingtootall AT yahoo DOT com. GMAP P*Shark DOB

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Enough already with the subsidized housing. Brooklyn is huge there is affordable housing if you look.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 11:09 AM

Whoa, now you got my attention--that's 2 blocks from me. That area could realllly use some nice development, but 16 stories sounds like a bit much to me. Also, Fischer's buildings have never gotten much love around these parts. Mr. B., do you have renderings of past Fischer projects?

Posted by: bob999 at April 5, 2007 11:13 AM

this is way too high, and i suspect the developer is way too high as well

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 11:27 AM

Well, 11:09, it would be nice if some of the so called affordable housing was somewhere near where people work, (which for most is Manhattan), instead of mostly being in the butt end of Bklyn,or deep in less than encouraging environments. A stable, vital neighborhood is a mixed income neighborhood.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 11:29 AM

Huh? What is 11:29 talking about? There are thousands upon thousands of subsidized units along Myrtle.

Also, what is with your geographic point? The borough with the highest proportion of non-market (subsidized) units is Manhattan.

Posted by: Crawford at April 5, 2007 11:33 AM

actually, i think it is 18 stories total; 16 residential on top of a two-story community facility base

the rendering on the fisher website is of a much shorter pair of buildings, which IMO would be preferable to a single tower

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 11:34 AM

Sorry anon 11:29 I don't recall the constitutional ammendement that guarantees that you get to live in the "cool" neighborhoods or for that matter a short commute.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 11:48 AM

We can assume these are condos?

Posted by: BrooklynZoo at April 5, 2007 11:57 AM

I’m sorry but 16 stories does not equal a “tower”. Are we in Nebraska?
And affordable housing requirements in no way shape or form should (or were remotely intended to) apply to 49 unit buildings.

Posted by: brktwo at April 5, 2007 12:22 PM

it does constitute a tower when everything around it is a 2-3 story wood frame as they are on hall street.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 12:32 PM

Willoughby Walk Co-ops, which are just a block away from the proposed site, are 15 floor buildings. That said, a 49 unit building will absolutely tower over the buildings on that block...

Posted by: BZoo at April 5, 2007 12:35 PM

Where are those posters that keep yapping about how low density buildings are selfish and they should all be knocked down and put big buildings, so that there is more housing for the poor.

See it doesn't matter, even bigger buildings don't do really have to do anything to increase affordable housing.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 1:09 PM

i'm sorry, but some of you are extremely short sighted.

this is new york city. a city of skyscrapers. do you really think that it's going to be possible to keep everything low-rise to accommodate the amount of people that are here/coming etc.

if you want to live in a low rise city, move to dc.

Posted by: anon at April 5, 2007 1:31 PM

Yeah, it's now time for the if you want "X" you better move to "Y" comments *rolls eyes*

Wrong, you should not have to move. Did it ever occur to you that we read a blog about Brownstone Brooklyn because we like the historic buildings and the scale of Bklyn nabs that have historic buildings and are not big fans of overscaled uninspired buildings?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 1:36 PM

"Wrong, you should not have to move. Did it ever occur to you that we read a blog about Brownstone Brooklyn because we like the historic buildings and the scale of Bklyn nabs that have historic buildings and are not big fans of overscaled uninspired buildings?"

it did occur to me actually. so why don't you buy these lots when they come for sale and put your very own 3 story brownstone there instead.

if that isn't going to happen, then the people who DO buy these open lots need to make a profit on them and that isn't going to happen by building 3 and 4 story buildings. not to mention the fact that just about anything would be better than what's there now.

this isn't carroll street and 8th avenue we're talking about here...

and in fact i love brownstones, i happen to live in one myself.

Posted by: anon at April 5, 2007 1:53 PM

For months the architect has posted the plan for a 7 story on Washington and a 4 story on Hall with combined 55 condos and 75,000 sq ft.

The DOB records show plan for 16 stories, 49 units and 54,764 sq ft.

I've also heard the owner is just planning to sell of the lots and not develop them.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 2:00 PM

They scratched the original plans and they came up with a new scheme for a mini tower

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 3:08 PM

gotta go with 1:53pm on this one folks... the more high rises, the more apts, the more supply, the better for us demanding more 'nice' apts. seriously, who cares if its low rise or high rise, its still most likely gonna look like crap.

Posted by: david James Fox at April 5, 2007 3:14 PM

what the scoop on the damage to adjacent buildings? Too much of that happening in Brooklyn (and to be fair, in Manhattan as well)

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 9:44 PM

Anyone who is defending the "tower" as an opportunity to increase density, or maybe build some affordable housing either directly or by increasing total supply, etc. doesn't know what they are talking about. The plans are for a 54,764 square foot building on a 20,000 square foot lot. It has an FAR of 2.73, not much more than many rowhouses. There is no need to build a "tower" to get the 49 apartments that this building will produce. This is a "tower" so that the future tenants can literally and figuratively feel like they are above the rest of the neighborhood. This is all about architecture, without the least consideration for planning. And, no, 1:53, people don't have to own a property to have a interest in how it is developed. That is why the city is planning to rezone Fort Greene and Clinton Hill, to prevent abominations like this. Or, I should say more of them, since this building will likely have its foundation in before the rezoning is approved.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 5, 2007 9:44 PM

this whole area is going to be rezoned in 7 months. they have to pour that foundation within that time or it's no dice. the new zoning will not permit buildings of this scale.

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Posted by: HouseMath at April 6, 2007 4:21 AM

Anon 9:44 care to adjust your tinfoil hat?

"This is a "tower" so that the future tenants can literally and figuratively feel like they are above the rest of the neighborhood."

Give it a rest.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 6, 2007 9:26 AM

As some who lives within about 750 ft of this site, a 16-18 story building will be painfully out of place to the surrounding blocks of 3 story woodframe houses. True there are the CH coops near by but those are off Myrtle Ave and don't really effect the look and feel of the blocks on either side of Myrtle Ave. Obviously development is going to happen everywhere and communities have to negotiate with this fact. But 16 stories seems like a bit much when literally everything around it is 3 stories. 6 stories seems much more reasonable. It's about compromise. And there's nothing compromising about a 16 story glass giant.

Posted by: local at April 6, 2007 10:57 AM

it's going to be 18 stories. alert everyone in the community that you can and email buildingtootall AT yahoo DOT com

we need to figure out how to stop this or to get them to build smaller.

Posted by: local 2 at April 6, 2007 11:09 AM

1) What is e-mailing buildingtootall going to do for us?

2) There are more condos going in a few blocks east of there on Ryerson and Steuben that are much more modest in design. 16 stories is going to seem waaaay out of place.

Posted by: LimestoneKid at April 6, 2007 2:21 PM

e-mailing buildingtootall will help us organize as a community and speak with a unified voice.

Power in numbers, and all that.

Posted by: local at April 6, 2007 3:56 PM

maybe if they build something like this on top of a 3 story box it would be an acceptable high rise

http://inhabitat.com/2006/11/07/urban-cactus-building/

Posted by: Anonymous at April 6, 2007 5:33 PM

The effing NIMBYS are taking over!!!!!

"Let's organize!"

"Let's protest!"

"Let's stop this!"

"Let's stop that!"

PLEASE STFU!!

Myrtle Avenue is still the ghetto! There's housing projects everywhere and poverty and crime runs rampant. Who are you Nimbots fooling? You guys should be freak'n happy that real estate developers are taking a shot in this nabe and trying to bring it up to some level of respectability! This development and the others on Myrtle will bring about meaningful positive change to the area and most of the residents here, myself included, welcome it!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 7, 2007 5:13 AM

I doubt seriously that, for his/her bluster, 5:13 is a nearby resident. No one familiar with the neighborhood would say, "Myrtle Avenue is still the ghetto!"

Posted by: Anonymous at April 7, 2007 10:14 AM

Walt Whitman and Ingersoil houses are on Myrtle Avenue and they are two of the worst and most violent housing projects in New York City! Please stop the bullshit! Who are you kidding?!?!?!?

And I am indeed a nearby resident! 20 years and counting!!!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 8, 2007 8:35 PM

As a next-door neighbor of this lot, I can only hope the rezoning happens and the developers are forced to reconsider the scale of the building before construction truly begins. The pace of the project has been breathtakingly slow. The demolition of the warehouse happened about a year and a half ago. They tore the shingles off the bottom half of my row house that was adjacent to a warehouse wall, put up flimsy plywood as a fence, and then...nothing at all for the past several months, if not the past year. (May I mention that during the past winter, the developers didn't bother to shovel the ice and snow off the sidewalk in front of this lot? Should've reported their asses to 311.) I'd already been apprehensive at the prospect of a 5-story building next to my 2-family house, but 16 stories? WTF. The coops and PJs mentioned in earlier comments have at least the virtue of being contained in their own little compounds and while they are quite large, they are appropriately set back far from the streetscape. I can't think of any block in CH/FG that has such a tall tower right next to small-scale homes. It's as if Atlantic Terminal was built in the middle of St. Felix. And while Myrtle may seem "ghetto" to some people, the projects are much further down the avenue towards Flatbush and not anywhere near this vibrant part of the neighborhood. Why does development have to mean the Soho-ization of my beautiful Clinton Hill? Aside from the need for a viable drugstore in the neighborhood, I think our community is fairly well-served by the area merchants--I'd never call Myrtle near Washington ghetto. We have a Quizno's now, for crying out loud. And to Mssrs. Developers: if you think this area can handle such an influx of luxury condos, think again. Unless you have some secret deal with the MTA to improve and extend the G train line, you and every other developer on Myrtle are going to be sorely disappointed at the market. I say we turn this lot into a drugstore, community center or bookstore (or another needed neighborhood amenity) and perhaps allow small-scale development on top.

Posted by: Hall St. neighbor at April 10, 2007 5:31 PM

8:35 PM,

Who are you kidding?!!!!! Myrtle avenue is completely rocking these days and you are completley wrong. Especially since this stretch of Myrtle is far from the Whitman and Ingersol houses that you say are so bad. Also, there is already TONS of development going on and i can count at least 5 LARGE condo buildings nearly complete on Grand street & Steuben street alone. There is absolutely no need for an 18 story building and there is even less need for you to spew your fearful BS. Go hide under your tree, little man.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 11, 2007 12:33 PM

We have a decent drugstore now accross from the new Bank of America. Not the size of the typical Duane Reade but then Duane Reade isn't really a great model for a pharmacy anyway.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 17, 2007 11:40 AM

I'd have to agree with 8:13. Having been a resident of Downtown Brooklyn for 20 years, including Ingersoll and Walt Whitman Houses, I must say that Myrtle Ave (by Flathbush ave) is indeed ghetto. When crossing the street from the Metrotech side of Flatbush to Myrtle, there is a clear transition, from a nice, clean, working-class business area to a run-down, poverty stricken, crime infested area, of which even falls below the standards of what I'd call a "neighborhood", deserving nothing more than just a "hood".

It is about time that this area sees some gentrification! High rise or not, I am excited to see the changes for the better. If you're really bothered by this, then you can easily save yourself the agony by MOVING. Those in Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill and such, won't really be affected anyway since they are still well away from the area that is being concentrated on the most. Also, cities do grow, and if there isn't anything left to support the growing population (no new residential areas or high rises to support more people), it would just deteriorate as it has been. I can say this especially after witnessing the fall (and short life) of many of the stores that used to be around, and part of the reason no one would stay or open new businesses was because of the criminalities they were often faced with and the lack of aesthetic appeal of the surroundings.

I really don't think that this part of Brooklyn would start to look like Manhattan, it would just help bring out the charm of Brooklyn that people have always enjoyed the most. This would just bring back the life that Downtown slowly lost long ago.

Posted by: A52 at July 19, 2007 6:02 PM

« Just Sold in Brooklyn Foreclosure of the Week: 931 Fulton Street »

April 5, 2007

Tower Plans for Washington Ave Ruffling Feathers

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