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April 18, 2007

House of the Day: 380 Degraw Street

Okay, let's get the paint job out of the way upfront. You gotta wonder why the sellers of this brownstone at 380 Degraw Street didn't spring for a more neutral coat of paint before putting the house on the market. If it were only one room, we could roll with it, but every room in sky blue? It's a little much. With an asking price of $2,645,000, spending $10,000 to repaint a few rooms would have been well worth it, we think. While this is a great house in a great location overall, other aspects of the recent "modern" renovation were only partially successful as well: The shiny blond floors (which, to be fair, could be worse on camera than in person) and the choice of white paint for the exterior of the windows both aren't working for us. The kitchen reno looks very good, though, and there's lots of nice original detail still in place, like the crown moldings, door frames and bannister. There's an open house on Sunday from 1 to 3. It'll be interesting to see hear how this place shows in person.
380 Degraw Street [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark

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Comments

I'm usually in with Mr B, but I think he's protesting a little bit too much here. The current owners obviously like the sky blue color (maybe BM's "marlboro blue"?), and I like that they had cajones to try something dramatic. And: I think the the blue pairs well with a blonde wood (complementing the yellow in the wood), so there is a method to this "madness."

That being said, the color scheme doesn't work everywhere: the exterior window casings should not be white, and I think the stair risers should be white instead of blue. The kitchen strikes me as a little awkward with the refrigerator lost and the pendant too small for its space.

And going up the stairs, well, kind of an uninspired layout.

Finally, I know it's beating a dead horse, but the hyperbole in the realtor description really begins to work against the listing for me. It is quite clear that plenty of expense was, indeed, spared (e.g., to start, A/C in window, conventional floor plans, inexpensive plastic pendants), and if that's an "allee [sic] of white birch" well, I've been in New York too long.

--an architect in Brooklyn

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:36 PM

I had the same comment re: "allee". Plus, for this price, fully renovated, one would expect at least one closet (unless I am missing something on the floorplan--perhaps the small "bedrooms" have been turned into closets?).

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:44 PM

Does anyone know what happened to typekey? It hasn't been available for a couple of days.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:46 PM

"open views over the South garden" is the piece of fluffery that caught my eye, as the skinny patch of dirt out back does not a "South garden" evoke.

Posted by: suzy at April 18, 2007 12:48 PM

Yup, we've disabled it for the time being since a certain somebody was hacking into it and impersonating some of the regular users on the site (including us!)

Posted by: Brownstoner at April 18, 2007 12:48 PM

I know this house - been inside for a party-and it's quite lovely, very simple with a great backyard. But that price is insane!!!

The kitchen is great, but it's IKEA.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:49 PM

Heard through a friend that saw it that it's gorgeous in person.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:49 PM

ridiculous. if someone can afford to buy the place for $2.whatever million, then let them spring for their own damn paint job.

I think this place is quite blind to the outlandish prices. I know there will be opposition to this comment, but I can't but think what would happen if people finally said, "Enough is enough." The consumers are setting the price value. And I feel this blog acts more to increase prices through Brooklyn than to bring them down.

Is it obvious that I rent?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:51 PM

Yep, someone hacked into typekey and started impersoning Ed, Bob Marvin and Brownstoner himself!!!

Meanwhile, I admit, I kinda like the interior of this place as well. It's a bit of a strong statement and it certainly requires someone with adventurous tastes. Nevertheless, it looks totally tasteful to me, and not tacky.

Who knew Carroll Gardens would be selling so high? Brown Harris Stevens prices very wisely in general. Let's see what happens.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:51 PM

architect in Brooklyn - why don't you like the white window casings? We are in the process of renovating our place (looks similar period italianate) in a vaguely similar way - preserving the original moldings, doors & where possible ceiling detail but otherwise going for a modern finish. We are debating paint finishes now and are leaning towards repainting the orignal (eastern white pine) woodwork in white(except staircase balustrade/rail which is mahogony?). Our bias for the walls is to use a white or offwhite mostly, with possibly some rooms in stronger colors. Further on the woodwork, we have the option of using varnish possibly as we are having it stripped but these were originally painted & the wood isn't always in the best condition. One area of debate is treatment of the window shutters which we are very ambivalent about on whether to paint white to match moldings / doors or varnish/stain-varnish which would probably look better from outside when closed given exteriof black window paint.

PS anyone have an opinion on using American Clay (www.americanclay.com) Porcelina white on the walls (in the context above)?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:55 PM

Also it's in a rotten school zone 32, not 58 or 29.

I guess if you buy it, you're sending your kids to private school.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 12:56 PM

i think it's very fairly priced. i also think, for a brownstone that they have really managed to create a truly bright, open feeling from what i've gathered from the pictures. maybe not all my personal taste, but looks like a truly happy home. i know that sounds cheesy, but seriously.

i would not at all be suprised if they get this price.

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2007 12:56 PM

i actually like the blue, but not the kitchen. ikea kitchens look too cheap in these houses. who would pay 2.6 mil for a house with an ikea kitchen?

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2007 1:02 PM

I like it. They're making some bold statements designwise. Looks like they've done it on a budget (Ikea kitchen, socket fixture) - aint no crime, but the devil's in the details as they say. Would like to see in person.

Me, I like the idea of mixing modern elements within b-stone spaces. Granted, some of the attempts have failed, but this works great . . . from the pics.

Posted by: John at April 18, 2007 1:08 PM

1 1/2 blocks away from the projects.
Neighborhood is hip, but transportation (f,g train) is sucky.

Going to smell to high heaven once they shut the gowanus flushing tunnel.

Rents for this would be perhaps (maybe) 2k/floor. At a generous 15x rent roll, this is still overpriced by 80%.

There is a parking lot right behind this that is going to be developed.

CG is nice and all, but this is simply too rich.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 1:12 PM

I just saw the recorded sale for a duplex in the recently condo'd 100 2nd place. It went for 1.825 Buyers have lost their collective minds. This place seems like a relative deal.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 1:14 PM

I saw this place when it was first on the market roughly 5 or 6 years ago and back then it was at $1.3 if memory serves (which at the time was way higher than any building had sold for on that block). The owner is a lady who owned a few properties on the same street and was just sort of feeling out the market. Since she had so many other places and was just renting out the place as 3 units (one duplex + 2 single floor apartments )she wasnt really interested in negotiating at all... I can confirm that the place is indeed gorgeous in person. The living space is really large and the garden is really great. The location is nice too, half a block off of smith.

Big minus for us was the school situation (if memory serves it was zoned for the sketchy schools in Boerum Hill). Factor in $20-30k a year per kid on private school into the price. The price does seems a bit excessive, but the building itself is great.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 1:16 PM

Typekey wasn't hacked, he was just creating new accounts with the same display name and a similar account name, like putting a . in front of the account or a zero instead on a O. Part of the problem is that Typekey allows a seperate display name from the account name so any account can display as an existing user.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 1:17 PM

I don't know, looks like a garden to me. Except for lack of any bathroom on the parlor floor, seems like a family-friendly layout. No idea about price, definitely out of my reach.

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2007 1:20 PM

1:12...wake up on the wrong side of the litter box today? jeez.

house may be a little expensive, but the things you hate about the place are what city living is all about. close proximity to affordable housing, new development, a soon to be refurbished canal, etc. if you hate these things so much, it seems odd to live in such a large city such as new york.

guess it's the glass half full vs. glass half empty mentality at work also.

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2007 1:22 PM

Would be like living in a Tiffany's box. Where's Audrey Hepburn when you need her?

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2007 1:48 PM

Wait a sec. Plenty of other similar townhouses in the neighborhood on equally nice streets -- and zoned for 58 or 29 -- are going for at least a million less. WTF??? And a million less is still nearly triple what they went for 7 or 8 years ago. Come on. Just say no.

Posted by: happyCGrenter at April 18, 2007 1:49 PM

It's a little over 2,700 square feet. Does Carroll Gardens really price at close to $1,000 per square foot these days?

Posted by: dcardoni at April 18, 2007 2:00 PM

You people are pretty clueless about the brownstone market at the moment. There are houses elling for way, way more than this in Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens and Park Slope. You might not want to believe it, but it's true!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 2:02 PM

The Gowanus is definitely going to get worse before it gets better. Closing the Gowanus Flushing Tunnel will have a major impact until they fix it. Which will be years? (Not sure what the schedule is, but most of these projects take longer than first imagined.)

Posted by: Carol Gardens at April 18, 2007 2:07 PM

This seems overpriced for location and renovation. I do like the blue tho!

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 2:12 PM

LOVE the colors. Love it, totally.

Hate brown window casings, I'm so sick of seeing those. There's no one way to design/decorate a brownstone! Why do people think that? Painted woodwork and interesting colors on the walls, are such a breath of fresh air. This kind of fun modern twist on renos for brownstones is what the new wave of buyers will be wanting, imo. You were seeing it in townhouses in Manhattan years ago already. (I'm not the seller or broker. I'm just a fan of painted woodwork; I've posted my enthusiasm for it before on 'stoner on other threads.)

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 2:18 PM

I am often reminded by posters on this site that nothing is really expensive anymore and that two or three million bucks is not really as much as it used to be in Brooklyn. So I guess the large pricetag is in keeping with the times. However the blue is repelent.
And the photo makes the parlor look like the interior of a train.

Posted by: Serge at April 18, 2007 2:23 PM

Serge you are proving again what someone pointed out the other day, that you have NEVER once said a positive thing on this website. Just saying.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 2:37 PM

This neighborhood is still pretty sketchy. One block down (on hoyt), you've still got the ghettomarts, the bulletproof liquor store, the burned out housing, etc..
On douglass, the people are decidedly un-yuppie -- working class (mostly spanish) families in nondescript houses. We were offered a newly renoed duplex one block away for about 2200/month about a year ago; we said no because we went down there at midnight and found the typical projects crowd hitting the 40s.

CG may be super-popular (and it certaintly has appreciated a lot, but when the cost of the house is roughtly 200-250k /yr, and you'd be lucky to get 25 from ground floor tenants, you are looking at needing an income of 400-600k/yr to afford this.

We make that, but we're still renting.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 2:44 PM

architect -

i believe cajones are drawers. cojones is the word for you.

Posted by: Benno at April 18, 2007 3:21 PM

One important question as to this home's value is the school it is zoned for. If it is zoned for ps 38 or 32, the value goes down. However, if it is zoned for 29 or 58 (which has become nearly as coveted as 29), then it may go for near the asking price. Yes, buyers can do private, but unless they have older kids already enrolled, private schools are near impossible to get into these days, so no guarantee.

Ironically, a brown harris broker recently appraised our 4-story on a CG place block (between Clinton and Henry) as only 1.6 or 1.7 million. Granted, it would take some money to get it into the shape of this one, but not close to $800,000 worth, and the location is better. But I thought it was fairly accurate appraisal of the what the market was, so perhaps this is over priced, or buyers will pay a big premium for "move in" condition (which does make sense).

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 3:23 PM

There are also buyers out there who do not care about school districts.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 3:34 PM

Anon at 2:44 p.m.: it boggles my mind that you're making 400-600k per year but choose to rent. Surely at that income level, you could find something to your liking in Brooklyn?

Posted by: Park Sloper at April 18, 2007 3:34 PM

Anon 12:51, you're wrong on the paint issue, here. As annoying as it is to spend money on a house you're unloading, experience has taught me that you cannot expect buyers to have the slightest bit of vision, or to understand that a paint job is a rounding error at this price point. People will reject a house for the stupidest of reasons--the dishwasher ($200-$500), or needing a $5K new roof, or not having an alarm system ($1500-$2000). As pretty as this blue is, it will stop people from buying the house. It would have been worth every penny to repaint the joint (or at least part of the joint) in neutrals. I also agree that for this price, an Ikea kitchen is sub-par. Is it really Ikea? You mean the cabinets and counters?

Posted by: Bob999 at April 18, 2007 3:36 PM

Yes the posters who think this is expensive are out of touch with prices in the neighborhood. No way you can buy a similar house for more than a million dollars less than this in this neighborhood. This is not the top of the market by any means.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 3:46 PM

The kitchen cabs are Ikea; if the counters are Italian limestone like the broker claims, those certainly aren't Ikea. I've seen an Ikea kitchen in a multimillion-dollar loft in Manhattan, so I'm not hating on Ikea at all. Their kitchen cabs are much better quality than many semi-custom lines out there (and a HUGE step up from a lot of Ikea furniture), plus they come with excellent hardware. Check out the Finished Kitchens Blog at GardenWeb for some more great kitchens with Ikea cabinets.

Posted by: zeebee at April 18, 2007 3:49 PM

"architect in Brooklyn - why don't you like the white window casings? We are in the process of renovating our place (looks similar period italianate) in a vaguely similar way - preserving the original moldings, doors & where possible ceiling detail but otherwise going for a modern finish."

To clarify -- I don't like white exterior jambs, headers and sills. Inside I like it fine, did it in my own renovation.

"We are debating paint finishes now and are leaning towards repainting the orignal (eastern white pine) woodwork in white(except staircase balustrade/rail which is mahogony?)."

In my case, I needed all new casings, which were painted, but the original cherry staircase and some wainscotting also intrude where appropriate.

"Our bias for the walls is to use a white or offwhite mostly, with possibly some rooms in stronger colors."

I used offwhites and stronger colors so that the white casings and trim would "pop."

"Further on the woodwork, we have the option of using varnish possibly as we are having it stripped but these were originally painted & the wood isn't always in the best condition. One area of debate is treatment of the window shutters which we are very ambivalent about on whether to paint white to match moldings / doors or varnish/stain-varnish which would probably look better from outside when closed given exteriof black window paint."

I've done shutters both ways -- I like them painted, but opted for a palette of natural shutters/doors and painting casings/trim. Looks great from the outside, too -- painted the windows and jambs glossy black in front and a dark blue at back.

"architect -

i believe cajones are drawers. cojones is the word for you."

Egad. Yes, you're right.

--an architect in Brooklyn

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 3:50 PM

Ikea cabinets get a bad rap. They are really wobbly if you don't put them together exactly right, but we put one in a rental unit (and used it for 8 months) and it seemed fine. A little gorilla glue helps stabilize it, too. I would get it again over the offerings at HD and Lowe's, and is a fraction of the price and you don't have to wait months while HD or Lowe's keeps screwing up your order. We put the whole thing in the back of a van and our contractor had it up in a day. Yes, I know it is not plywood construction, but in Europe you can go much higher end and it's still not plywood. Of course, for $2.6 million I might want something better, but I wouldn't feel the need to run out and replace right away, either. (Assuming I could ever afford a $2.6 million house.)

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 3:55 PM

It's a perfectly nice house. I'm sure it will sell at a handsome price in spite of the tidy-bowl blue interiors (what possessed them?).
There is a part of me that thinks that it is a little immoral to pay three million dollars for a house in an area where the median income is probably around $19,000 a year per family. Think of the income disparity between whoever buys this place and most of the rest of the neighborhood.
It is amazing that people can be comfortable with this type of income gap right outside their stoop. But I guess they deal with it.

Posted by: Serge at April 18, 2007 4:13 PM

2:44pm,

I agree completely with your analysis of this house and its price. You are the type of guy I'd like working for me. Unfortunately, I can't afford to pay you more than twelve bucks an hour, so I don't think it's gonna happen.

Buyers of houses like this aren't making rational investments. As an investment, houses like this make no sense. They're for people with serious wealth who can weather the eventual drop in real estate prices and want to live "the life" immediately.

As my wise uncle (and successful real estate investor)used to say, "Real estate prices go up and down. Save up and wait. Eventually you'll get a deal." I've taken his advice so far and done fine.

I purchased several apartment buildings in prime Manhattan almost ten years ago that cash flowed from day one. I won't pay these crazy prices because I know the market is bound to correct eventually.

Some of you folks will claim it's different with a house you live in, but it's not. That's just an excuse. A rip-off is a rip-off is a rip-off.

Posted by: Jake the Snake at April 18, 2007 4:21 PM

"It is amazing that people can be comfortable with this type of income gap right outside their stoop."

Is that somehow worse than segregation of weathy and poor into different, separate enclaves?

Posted by: EJ at April 18, 2007 4:21 PM

I understand the house has offers. The market is crazy now.. they will get it

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 4:28 PM

Why, of course, EJ. Who wants to stare down their glass of shiraz at the people in the "ghettomarts" and the "un-yuppie" Spanish folks doing whatever they do, as so was stated with so much panache by the well heeled at anon. 2:24? What a concept.

Gawd, the classism here is mind boggling sometimes.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 4:39 PM

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 3:46 PM

Monsieur Le Shill, what's your hat size? You'll look great in a Starbucks lid when the "correction" comes, pal.

There have been a couple of slightly less grand houses on 2nd St. and Hoyt recently for 1.4-1.5, and another comparable one on Union that looked a tad high at 1.7. He who zooms past that 2M mark will be underwater by next winter, if not immediately.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 4:42 PM

Brillian retort. Ad hominem attacks are very intelligent.

All those that predicted significantly lower prices in 2006 were . . . absolutely . . . wrong.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 4:50 PM

I like the blue. Perhaps better to do the stairs/halls in white, though, for re-selling.

Posted by: k at April 18, 2007 4:58 PM

$912/sf? Really? Are there comps to support this number?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 5:04 PM

can someone tell me what the Gowanus Flushing Tunnel is, and what it means that they are going to close it?

Posted by: anonymous at April 18, 2007 5:05 PM

"Anon at 2:44 p.m.: it boggles my mind that you're making 400-600k per year but choose to rent. Surely at that income level, you could find something to your liking in Brooklyn?"

Maybe he/she just feels that prices are out of whack. He's not alone, and maybe renting affords him a lifestyle that a huge mortgage payment and endless maintenance of an old house would not. Face it, NY has always been a renter town - my parents had a friend who was a multimillionaire - he lived in the same huge Park Ave. rental that he grew up in - paid one of those ridiculous low rents b/c it was rent controlled. And I'm sure he found plenty of other ways to invest, considering his substantial wealth. He certainly wasn't crying about losing out on a mythical tax break there.

Posted by: Anon at April 18, 2007 5:06 PM

New owners always paint anyway. I think it's a bad idea to paint everything white before selling, because that's just one more layer o'paint to crust things up in an old house. If the buyer loves the colors as they are, all the better. Plus if the seller hired an expensive interior designer to choose the colors, why cover up the work? Even if it's not to someone's taste, to me it always stands out as upscale when it's a professional designer's work. When a room looks "designed" like these rooms do.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 5:07 PM

to 4:39
I think there are relatively few Spanish people in the area, most of the immigrants are non-European from the Caribean and other parts of northern Latin America. There are also many impoverished American families in the run-down houses and projects nearby.

Posted by: Serge at April 18, 2007 5:14 PM

I don't know about this price. One poster asked about comps. Regarding the paint, I don't like it at all but you wouldn't need to redo all the trim, just the blue (unless you LIKE it...) and assuming that the walls were prepped well, it is doable. For a brownstone, I think white anything on the outside looks bad. The first thing I would do is paint all of that exterior woodwork black.

A friend told me that Brown Harris Stevens thinks of itself as a high end real estate firm and that its policy is not to photograph bedrooms or bathrooms.
Well, I bet the bedroom is blue.

Oh, and whoever said that Serge never says anything positive on this site, Serge is a great contributor to this site and has lots of very helpful information. I love to see his comments. He has a unique perspective on Brooklyn.

Posted by: donatella at April 18, 2007 5:36 PM

glad you like Serge's comments - because he loves to make them even when he doesn't know what he is talking about as in
"I think there are relatively few Spanish people in the area, most of the immigrants are non-European from the Caribean and other parts of northern Latin America. There are also many impoverished American families in the run-down houses and projects nearby."
Same goes for others - House around corner on Douglass recently and very quickly went into contract -asking $2.25 with Corcoran - no stoop and a little smaller with very short backyard.
Degraw is very nice, attractive block - and yes price is pushing it but nor far off.
And house is about 3600 sq ft. not 2700 like the other commentors nonsense. Which puts in in $700s a sq ft.
And I don't really care for all the blue either.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 6:21 PM

^ If the broker's measurements mean anything at all, that house is not 42' long, as propertyshark has it -- more like 38' tops. Which gives me 3000 sf, which gives me $880/sf.

Someone asked, are there comps that support this. It's a good question.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 6:39 PM

Anonymous 6:21: How is the house 3600 sq ft?

Each floor is 19 x 36 = 684 sq ft x 4 (number of floors) = 2736. Puts it at $967 per sq ft.

What am I missing?

Posted by: dcardoni at April 18, 2007 6:42 PM

I have installed at least 6 Ikea Kitchens. The cabinets for the money cannot be beat. Only super duper highend cabinetry is better. And I know all you Big SPenders out there would never spring for the Poggen Puhls, YOu are all too cheap who cares if one nitwit prices their house at $1000 a sq foot, I hope they get it. I hope This house sells for 2.5. God Bless America. Land of the RICH ANd the POOR all living together in Harmony.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 6:42 PM

There are comps. Again, some people here really do not know what they are talking about. Opinions are great, but...Where do you think the price came from? Fell out of the sky??

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 6:42 PM

you are missing because house is 20 x 46 and 4 floors = 3680 sq ft. = $718.75 a sq ft.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 6:54 PM

The Gowanus flushing tunnel pulls (relatively) fresh water from Buttermilk channel into the head of the canal at Butler creating some flow and eliminates the smell from the stagnation. It actually parallels the original Gowanus creek and considering the huge improvement in the general state of the canal my guess is that it should not be nearly as offensive smelling as in years passed.

Posted by: Baer at April 18, 2007 6:55 PM

measurements per propshark - which is copied from city records. Brokers can't even spell - you think they know how to use a measuring tape?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 6:58 PM

where's fran to tell us that this house should be listed for 250K???

i miss her.

NOT.

love the house. hope they get their price.

all you bitter bitter people on this board need to get a second job and quit your effin bitching.

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2007 7:31 PM

I have been in the house. It's 36' deep and property shark records are often erroneous. Price will set a record for the block and ppsf if they get it. It feels like a renovation that "prettified" the house rather than adding quality. And the blue never ends. It's everywhere. So is the wallpaper, switching from blue trees to green trees. None of that would matter if it were not for the pricetag.

Posted by: anon at April 18, 2007 7:48 PM

Hey,
This is Fran, and I'm not a her you sexist idiot

Posted by: Fran at April 18, 2007 7:49 PM

tone it down please

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 8:09 PM

People who would be buying this will probably waive the mortgage contingency. PropertyShark records are often wrong including this one. For appraisal purposes the building size is used not the interior square footage so more like 3200 to 3400. Problem is that most residents of Brooklyn don't realize that prices are up between 10 and 20% in these areas. Local people are priced out and think negative comments will bring prices down. you have a fair number of people making between $500 and $1mil. a year who can afford this place and like modern style. My guess is that they will get over asking on this one..

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 9:15 PM

7:48pm poster is correct that this house is only 36' deep and 19 wide, according to the floor plan (which is typical of DeGraw -- lots of the housees are quite short. I think this price is a stretch for the space -- We looked at a 26 x 50 4 1/2 story home on 2nd place -- prime CG -- for $3 million and it sat on the market (although I believe it must have finally sold). Why would you spend so much money for such little space, and on a fine block, but not fantastic. I believe that house around the corner on Douglass that sold for over $2 million was 25 feet wide with an extension, so there's no comparison, and it still went for significantly less than this. Perhaps the problem is that there seems to be so few brownstones available to buy in CG. Perhaps if this sells, alot more people will put theirs on the market.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 9:16 PM

Poster at 9:15pm -- are you saying that Brown Harris Stevens would post a floorplan on their website that shows the house as being far SMALLER than it actually is? I find that hard to believe -- perhaps for some small brokerage, but come on, could they really be so inept? I think it's more likely that is the true dimensions of the house.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 9:20 PM

Neither property shark nor a realtor may be relied on for accurate square feet. Want to know how many square feet you have? Measure it yourself, or hire an architect.

***

Noticed also the plan lacks a half bath on the parlor floor -- not a deal breaker, of course, as the large unbroken front parlor really is nice.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 10:09 PM

I've found that the realtor floor plans are useful in telling you the basic parameters of the house. Nearly all of the houses are built to some basic specs: For widths, there is the standard 20 footers, the 18 or 19 footers (3 window across but narrower), 25 foot homes, and the very narrow ones that are only 2 windows across (15 or 16 feet). Most lengths are 40, 45, occasionally 50 (although in Park Slope longer homes are more common), and sometimes only 36 feet, which I've noticed in houses on Sackett and DeGraw. Some of them have extensions, but they are usually noted. (I know there are many exceptions, but still...)

I'm assuming this is a shorter house because it's noted as such in the floor plan. While they aren't 100% accurate, I've usually found them to give me a decent idea of what the home's exterior dimensions are.

Also, when home is 20foot wide or more, or 3600 square feet, the realtor often notes it in the listing copy, and this one doesn't list dimensions at all.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 18, 2007 11:05 PM

I wouldn't buy it since I have kids and I need a better school system than the area provides and private schools in brooklyn are harder to get into than college.

Also I have friends who bought brownstones near projects and regret their decision (guns shots, all night music, hanging out on corners). I'd pass for that reason as well.

Although I think the blue looks nice in the living room, as I was scrolling through rest of the house I thought, "did they really need to paint the entire house that color!". You get this sense that the house was fixed on a budget with little real passion.

Posted by: joe at April 19, 2007 4:31 AM

The school issue is really a non issue. I live on a block zoned for 32 and it hasn't hurt property values. Most children on my block go to public school but not 32. Your child can test into the gifted program and attend 29 (or other District 15 schools that have a gifted program)and you could apply for a variance to PS 261 or 58 and there is also the Children's School.

I also wouldn't necessarily knock PS 32 as they do have an excellent Pre-K and Kindergarten program and know some parents who have opted for that but then moved their kids after Kindergarten.

The somewhat sad fact is that anyone who buys that house won't be "forced" to send their child to 32 if they want to send their child to public school.

I also think that this house is far enough removed from the Gowanus Houses for that not to be an issue.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 19, 2007 7:22 AM

PS 29 no longer accepts out of zone children unless if you have a sibling in the school. They eliminated the "gifted program" several years ago.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 19, 2007 7:48 AM

I think the house looks great BUT just because they are having a sale on blue paint doesn't mean you should use the same color throughout the entire house..yikes

Posted by: Anonymous at April 19, 2007 8:08 AM

Anon 7:22 am is right in that PS 32 has a good Pre-K and K, and certainly may get better. But right now, it's still going to be an issue for parents looking for a house in a good zone. There really is a reason that realtors advertise PS 29 and PS 321 in their copy -- it helps sell the house. With the growing number of families staying in Brooklyn, saying you can apply for a variance to 58 or 261 isn't really an option as it's very unlikely you will get one. Gifted programs in District 15 aren't what they are in Manhattan -- they are for middle class parents in "bad" school zones, and housed in the schools that have trouble attracting middle class people (of all races). I don't know anyone who is zoned for a good local school who has chosen a gifted program at another school -- 29 and 321 are full of kids who are as "gifted" as the ones in those gifted programs. You can hope for good luck in a lottery school like the Children's School, but for most parents, it's much better to know you have a good zoned school to fall back on.

Also, I agree with poster above -- who paints the entire interior of a house the same color?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 19, 2007 9:24 AM

Relying on Property Shark is just uninformed. For instance, it lists my house with the incorrect number of floors, thus the square footage they list is off by a very large number.

Do you people honestly think the sales agent for a house would severly undersell the square footage on a house?

Posted by: dcardoni at April 19, 2007 9:48 AM

Exactly, I asked the same question above in an earlier post. I completely agree that using Property Shark as a reference doesn't make sense, especially if there is a realtor floor plan with dimensions already included in the listing.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 19, 2007 10:14 AM

The point about the flushing tunnel is that it will be out of service during repairs. So it is possible the Gowanus will be stinky again for quite a while.

Posted by: Carol Gardens at April 19, 2007 12:01 PM

Our governing assumption is that, while prices may fall in the near term, they will continue to increase over time particularly as the Gowanus area gets developed, and that that will be beneficial for this area of CG. Are we smoking something here (if you consider the 15 year perspective?)

Posted by: Interloper at April 19, 2007 12:41 PM

I'm amazed that this is called a bad neighborhood. I know of at least two "rainmaker" partners at law firms who live on this street (one on this block, one on the next over on the other side of Smith). I also am aware of a federal judge with a home on this block.

Slums, I tell ya.

Posted by: EJ at April 19, 2007 12:50 PM

I live on this block. As to the comments from 1:12, 2:44 and 5:14. The projects are really a non-issue unless you are a complete racist and dont like black or hispanic people walking on your block. The bigger issue for many residents is the late night noise from drunks leaving the bars on Smith Street. Safety is not an issue at all.

To call this block or neighborhood sketchy is way off the mark. Granted, the retail on Hoyt and Bond leaves a lot to be desired, but thats why there is shopping on Smith Street and Court Street.

There is no parking lot right behind about to be developed as there are no open lots on Sackett Street.

Also, I lived here prior to the reopening of the Gowanus Flushing tunnel and there is no smell this far west of the canal. Another non-issue.

There are many Spanish speaking people in the neighborhood, and a Spanish church on Douglass.

Finally, to 4:21 - You are correct. This is not priced for an investment. This is priced for someone to move in now without much work and enjoy the house. As long as you dont plan to flip for an immdiate profit, it doesnt matter what you pay as long as your horizon is long term.

Posted by: Bored at Work at April 19, 2007 2:37 PM

I don't understand this. You people were all over 361 Degraw Street for being overpriced $1.5mm, yet this place on the same block is almost a mill higher and duplex condos actually sell for $1.8 around the corner. You people are so clueless.

Posted by: expat bklynite at April 20, 2007 2:07 PM

expat bklynite (aka clueless) - if I remember correctly 361 was a 3 family delivered with tenants & needing reno. Big big diff

Posted by: Anonymous at April 21, 2007 9:19 PM

361's two rentals have rent-control tenants. Tough sell.

As for 380, you should have seen the place before the current owners did the work. They did everything, top to bottom and in between.

Posted by: MC Ice B at May 17, 2007 2:38 PM

This house closed on 8/8/07 for $2,860,000.

Posted by: NewYawker at February 11, 2008 12:29 PM