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July 20, 2007
Green Roof For a Park Slope Brownstone
How cool is this. A Park Slope couple decided last year that they wanted to build a green roof atop their brownstone and found, through the Brownstoner Forum, a local design firm called Prospect Architecture (which, in the spirit of full disclosure, also advertises on the Forum). The project, which combined a green roof, photovoltaic array (solar power) and roof deck, is pretty unusual because of its small scale—most green roofs in the city to date (and there aren't that many of them) have been on larger buildings. Here's how the architects describe it:
Our design incorporates an intensive (which refers to the use of larger plants) green roof, a large Ipe wood (like teak) deck, a metal and Ipe roof over part of the deck, an aluminum clad bulkhead. A wall and trellis hide new a/c compressors. Solar panels will be installed on top of the roof over the deck, the bulkhead roof and in front of the a/c compressors and will provide roughly 50-60% of the clients power needs including the a/c system. Additionally, our design is experimenting with various shade tolerant plants, like ferns beneath the front solar array, which is expected to help cool the arrays and maintain their top efficiency as well as retain more moisture than the gravel alternative.
The design provokes a feeling of walking through a small meadow while at the same time reminding one of the city that is all around. It is a private oasis with distant vistas of Manhattan and the surrounding neighborhoods of Brooklyn. The planters and benches around the perimeter of the deck add greenery and carry one’s eye past the immediate rooftops to the more panoramic of views. On the south side of the garden, an aluminum-clad wall fashioned with vine covered trellises shield one from the sight and sound of the mechanicals. The specific placement and structure of the architectural elements not only maximize the use of the entire roof, but the modern design acts as a representation of the dichotomy between city and nature.
And what about the cost? A little over $200 a square foot, including demo, structural enhancement, new stairs and bulkhead. Lots more pics on the jump.
If you've done, or are in the midst of doing, a cool interior or exterior project like this that you'd like to share, please send us an email at brownstoner@brownstoner.com.
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Comments
mad cool
im gonna tell my boys at farragut
Posted by: Mos Def at July 20, 2007 10:42 AM
So my 25'x40' roof would cost $160,000 to build. Hmmm...
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 10:44 AM
i'm pumped. I'm also doing a green roof for my brownstone and really needed a reference point so i know where to begin and where to go. but my research was coming in as costing much less than this
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 11:07 AM
11:07,
Wanna blog it on a Reno blog? Would be interesting for everyone...
Posted by: Brownstoner at July 20, 2007 11:14 AM
Wow, I'm seething with jealousy... What a beautiful and eco-friendly (if maybe not exactly wallet-friendly) project...
Posted by: StateStreeter at July 20, 2007 11:18 AM
Absolutely beautiful... and solar panels
providing over 50% of their power needs!
Would love to see more examples of green roofs in different price ranges.
Posted by: bren at July 20, 2007 11:20 AM
20x40x200 = 160,000
25x40x200 = 200,000
but what's 5 feet or 40G btw friends
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 11:23 AM
Fabulous job. We'll need a new roof on our place in a few years and I was investigating doing solar panels but had no idea one could do something this elaborate and attractive. (*sigh of lust and envy*)
Posted by: zeebee at July 20, 2007 11:39 AM
It's amazing how white folk throw away their money in Brooklyn.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 11:39 AM
Ok...I am completely digusted with my rubberized roof in bed-stuy. I am incredibly jealous.
I wonder how well it sells when you decide to move (not in bed stuy, necessarily)?
Posted by: Green in da hood at July 20, 2007 11:43 AM
Ok...I am completely disgusted with my rubberized roof in bed-stuy. I am incredibly jealous.
I wonder how well it sells when you decide to move (not in bed stuy, necessarily)?
Posted by: Green in da hood at July 20, 2007 11:44 AM
Ok...I am completely disgusted with my rubberized roof in bed-stuy. I am incredibly jealous.
I wonder how well it sells when you decide to move (not in bed stuy, necessarily)?
Posted by: Green in da hood at July 20, 2007 11:44 AM
Sorry about that. My comment wasn't worth repeating thrice.
Posted by: Green in da hood at July 20, 2007 11:51 AM
Not legal, right? Only a certain percentage of the roof can be decked, the fence must be a certain set-back from the edge. Stuff like that. My bet is that they are ignoring the rules that make things like this so hard to do.
Lovely, though. I'd do it too, as long as the rules can be ignored.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 11:57 AM
I love it, can someone do the same for our roof for 80k? Thanks!
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 11:59 AM
Awesome!
Too bad our roofs are pitched!
Installing a metal roof on our back porch overhand this weekend. Very cool interlocking steel system. Nut brown, though comes in other colors.
http://www.fabral.com/
Will send Mr. B pics when we are done. Hopefully post worthy :)
Posted by: Action Jackson at July 20, 2007 12:02 PM
How sustainable is Ipe?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 12:03 PM
ipe is not sustainable, even if they tell you it is, you can cover a certain percentage of your roof in wood - legally, cant remember if its 10% or not. looks like an oasis if you have to repair the roof your fucked
Posted by: hayhay at July 20, 2007 12:38 PM
Ipe is wood from Brazilian rainforests and therefore not sustainable at all . . . it is beautiful though and weathers incredibly well . . .
You can do a simple extensive green roof for much, much cheaper than this (more like $50/foot but costs vary widely depending on your situation). Extensive green roofs use smaller, drought-tolerant plants like sedums, with less soil mass, and therefore less weight. They still provide positive heating and cooling benfits that green roofs offer.
The expensive costs here I imagine are centered around the ipe wood, the pv array, the steel required for this weight load, and what looks like a fancy roof entrance.
Posted by: Bob at July 20, 2007 12:40 PM
Oooooooh. Nice!
I think you can do this legally. Having something visible from the street is tough/impossible on landmarked blocks but set back should be OK . . . after a decade or two of permit filing.
Also, key to roof decks is doing them in removable square panels. That way when there's a leak, you just unscrew them from the frame.
Posted by: John at July 20, 2007 12:47 PM
@Anonymous (and anyone else who might know!)
You said there are certain regulations regarding the percentage of roof that can be decked - do you have any idea where I can find these regulations? I'm interested in the same, and would love to find out!
Posted by: Will at July 20, 2007 12:50 PM
I was told by me engineer that my roof was too weak to sustain too many people and things so I had to put in trusses from partywall to partywall to hold up the deck and railing plus i needed to bring up water and electrical and I had to get landmarks permtis. I decided to take a nice long vacation in the south of France instead.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 12:59 PM
When Bloomberg announced his sustainable NYC plan earlier this year, he mentioned subsidies or tax breaks for green roofs. Anyone got info on that?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 1:00 PM
It's lovely! If they can make a small planting area on a roof look this pretty, just think what they can do with all the space in those nasty all-concrete backyards! Start with greening all the Brooklyn backyards first, then worry about roofs.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 1:08 PM
Amazing! It reminds me of what they do in Japan.
Posted by: Pat at July 20, 2007 1:31 PM
According to Bob IPE is not a sustainable wood. It is if you get it from a reputable company that purchases only from Brazilian growers who follow the International Tropical Timber Organization (ITTO) guidelines for sustainable woods. This wood lasts 25+ years. You could use conventional decking materials (chock full of chemicals) that will last -maybe- 10 years and build the deck at least twice before one with IPE wears out.
Posted by: Holden at July 20, 2007 1:31 PM
According to Bob IPE is not a sustainable wood. It is if you get it from a reputable company that purchases only from Brazilian growers who follow the International Tropical Timber Organization (ITTO) guidelines for sustainable woods. This wood lasts 25+ years. You could use conventional decking materials (chock full of chemicals) that will last -maybe- 10 years and build the deck at least twice before one with IPE wears out.
Posted by: Holden at July 20, 2007 1:31 PM
Ipe is not sustainable, however it is class A rated for fire so you can put as much of it on you roof as you like. Basically it burns like steel. No self-respecting architect is likely to "ignore the rules" for something like this when their professional practice could be on the line (search this blog for Scarano). We used ipe on our roof but we chose 2x2 deck tiles which are supposedly are made of scrap (of course they may have been feeding us a line of (s)crap).
Extensive green roofs generally last much longer than traditional roof systems because the membrane is protected from UV and other damage by the growing substrate. Performing repairs may be slightly more complicated but you are certainly not fucked.
Generally, when doing a job like this you would take the roof down to the framing, removing everything else including the deck. If your framing is insufficient you can beef it up at that point and install a sufficient deck.
Posted by: jimdisc at July 20, 2007 1:40 PM
As clarification, I didn't mean you can't buy ipe that is certified. But I've heard lots of anacdotal eveidence that those tropical plantations, while great for growing ipe trees, are hardly models of good environmental stewardship. I would love to hear otherwise.
Posted by: jimdisc at July 20, 2007 1:48 PM
wow, that's really gorgeous. of course i want to see the new stairwell & behind the HVAC wall too :)
Posted by: lovely at July 20, 2007 1:55 PM
Here's a great place to start looking for information regarding green roofs:
http://www.greenroofs.org/
If you have a commercial/industrial space that you want to build/renovate there is a great program in place through the state that includes incentives for construction costs and financing:
http://www.nyserda.org/default.asp
We are participating in the program and will include a 30,000 square foot roof garden as a part of a complete package of green systems for our facility.
Our experience is that both Bloomberg's and Clinton Climate Initiative are all press release and no substance. The state has their act together though.
Berlin has been at the forefront of green roofs, Chicago is doing their best to catch up, and New York's efforts are in it's infancy.
Green roofs will make your roof last longer, reduce your heating and cooling needs, reduce stormwater runoff, and make for a much improved roof top picnic.
There are a ton of ways to do it cheaper than $200 per square foot. Having said that, they more than recouped their investment just in added value. Over thirty years this investment will pay for itself over and over and over...great job.
Posted by: Kuroko at July 20, 2007 2:00 PM
I bet at least 30% of that big price tag was for the solar panels.
The NY Times just did a story on green buildings. Solar Panels had a 15-year payback period. Way to long to make much sense for a homeowner (unless you want to make a big-$ green statement) until tech reduces the prices.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 2:48 PM
GORGEOUS...Now that's city living, a slice of heaven amid the chaos...ENJOY!
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 2:53 PM
Indeed, the promise of solar, especially on this scale hasn't delivered. It's roughly 8% efficient. There are hundreds of other places to put your "green" dollars that will provide a better roi.
Posted by: Kuroko at July 20, 2007 3:11 PM
"Indeed, the promise of solar, especially on this scale hasn't delivered. It's roughly 8% efficient. There are hundreds of other places to put your "green" dollars that will provide a better roi."
That isn't correct. The efficiency number you refer to is nothing to do with anything financial. If it wasn't workable then why are their big investment firms paying for installs on top of grocery stores and other large buildings, in return for the rights to sell the electricity back to the building over 10 year time horizons?
Even if you don't start profiting until 10 or 15 years out (assuming con-ed prices don't grow faster than inflation) you DO get back your investment when selling the property. I think like other improvements such as kitchens, buyers are willing to pay as much or more than the original install cost for the right to take over your improvement.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 4:50 PM
what kind of permits and/or variances would be needed to do something like this? is the bottomline that if it can't be viewed from the street, you're good, or is there more to it? also, any special hurdles if you're in a historic landmark district?
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 5:03 PM
I was the one who asked about the sustainability of ipe. I had a feeling, but didn't want to sound like a naysayer because it does look beautiful. I guess what I want to know is...Is this really a GREEN roof or is it just fashionable right now for it to look that way? I checked into ipe recently for my deck and decided against it because it didn't sound too kosher (green). Re: solar panels, My husband took a course on it a few years ago, thinking he would install them on our house, but decided it wasn't worth it because we would still have to rely on the grid. This was about 4 years ago, so maybe it's gotten better. Don't ask me what we've decided to use for the deck, because we kind of put that project aside.
Posted by: yente at July 20, 2007 5:44 PM
but why wouldn't they want to maximize the number of solar panels they have on the roof. seems doubtful that the few panels they seem to have will really cover that much of their electrical useage. i think the word green is again being overused on this site. it's more green than not, but come on it's all marketing not real environmental conciousness. I mean come on, why aren't we all talking about ripping up the concrete in front of our houses? That would help the earth as well in terms of lowering the heating of our city and limiting runoff. But no, it's the roof we must cover with plants that we will then hardly ever see and will never want to weed.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 20, 2007 7:03 PM
Just for everyone thinking about photovoltaics, the supply of these will probably jump greatly over the next 10 years. Microchips are moving away from silicon into more exotic materials, so all the silicon wafer factories will need someone to sell too.. Of course demand may greatly increase too.
Right now solar water heating is economical in NY. NY is a bit too hot in the summer for photovoltaics to be efficient when you need them most. PV's like very cool temperatures.
As for efficiency, the best PV's are over 40% efficient, much more efficient than plants. But most PV arrays are engineered for low cost so they use silicon scraps and are only about 10% efficient. The higher end stuff is used for things that move (solar cars), or need to be light (satellites).
Posted by: anon at July 20, 2007 11:05 PM
Nice idea, and nice execution. Get some extra insurance - my neighbor's roof already leaks, causing damange to our home, which was gut renovated not long ago. Last thing I was is some weeds or sod poking into my bedroom, or worse yet, a chinese water torture when it rains.
Not for attached houses, thank you.
Posted by: MissLo at July 21, 2007 2:48 PM
It is nice to see so much interest in Green roof projects. I wanted to offer responses to some of the comments from my perspective, as the architect.
IPE - A question was raised about ipe's sustainability. Unfortunately, it is a mixed bag. Ipe is not considered a combustible material by the building department because of its natural flame resistance, which allows you to build a larger deck space than the 20% allowed for combustible material on a roof (see section 27-338 (J) in the NYC Building Code). Ipe is a better alternative than the fire treated wood (which is filled with chemicals) that also has a non-combustible rating. We searched to find a supplier of FSC certified Ipe and despite some companies claims that they do carry it, when ask for the chain of possession letters to verify the FSC authenticity, they could not follow through. We felt that despite the wood coming from a Brazilian forest, the longevity of this wood partially, although definitely not completely, made up for its use. It is expected that because this wood has been sealed, it will likely last 50 years. Other non-combustible materials like recycled plastics or masonry pavers could have been used, but for aesthetic reasons they were not chosen. As more attractive products and solutions continue to come on line, future projects will continue to push the sustainability envelope.
LEGALITY - In response to another question, this project, as with all of our larger projects, had a full plan examination by the DOB rather than a professional self certification. This assures that another set of eyes other than ours is scouring our designs to make sure that they meet the codes. This project’s plans were approved by the DOB and the construction followed the plans. As another poster suggested, there is too much liability to go against the codes and the DOB.
SOLAR POWER - The PV system is a 4800 watt (dc) Sunwize standard grid-tie system consisting of 24 Sanyo 200 watt high efficiency modules. The PV array will be split between the deck roof (9 modules), the bulkhead (5 modules) and an angled array at the front of the roof (8 modules). The efficiency of the technology does not lessen the benefit of solar power. The efficiency of a coal plant matters because its energy source is polluting the environment and destroying ecosystems; the efficiency of solar power relates only to the amount of solar radiation on a particular area that is absorbed by the panels. No harm or true loss occurs if 80% of the solar radiation hitting that panel is not converted to electricity. The government rebate programs for NY State pay just over 50% of the project costs for all systems up to 10KW, which calculated at current electrical prices pays for itself in 11-12 years. The actual payback will likely be closer to 7-8 years due to the continuing cost increases in electricity. The bottom line is that solar is economically viable as it currently exists. Grid connecting the PV system was mentioned in a negative light in one comment, but to think of it in another way, while you are not able to be independent of the grid and use your solar power when the rest of the city blacks out by being grid tied (incidentally the only way to get the 50% rebates is through grid connection), you also don't have to have a whole room in your house devoted to large batteries that are not very sustainable.
As to Bloomberg's green roof tax rebate, we are currently looking into it and will post back with other information once we have verified the criteria.
For additional pictures, you can visit www.prospectarchitecture.com.
Additional sustainable elements in this project were air sealing the entire house, 6" of spray foam insulation under the roof and in the walls and ceiling of the bulkhead, operable casement windows in the bulkhead to allow for the natural stack effect in the summer to draw out the hot air, low VOC construction materials, and 14 SEER energy star AC units (rather than the 10 SEER rating allowable when the project was started), and a drip irrigation system in conjunction with mostly drought tolerant plants.
We would like to acknowledge the following companies for their essential contributions to the Project: Earth Pledge for green roof consulting, Exquisite Décor and Karamel Cabinetry for carpentry, Town and Gardens for landscaping, Duce Green Construction for the solar installation, and WP Hickman for roof consulting and material manufacture.
Thank you,
Jeremy Shannon
Principal Architect
Prospect Architecture
Posted by: Prospect Architecture at July 22, 2007 12:21 PM
What did the 4800 watt (dc) Sunwize standard grid-tie system consisting of 24 Sanyo 200 watt high efficiency module cost to purchase and install? What is the life expectancy of the system? What are the maintenance costs?
Posted by: kuroko at July 22, 2007 7:36 PM
This is a beautiful green roof, and with many features like structural reinforcement, decking, stone pavers, and a wide diversity of plant species, I can understand how this became such an expensive project. Most green roofs don't cost as much as $200 per sq. ft., it's more like $20. This project obviously included a lot of structural work which brought the price up so much.If you're interested in installing a more affordable green roof or finding out more about them, visit my website: www.alivestructures.com or contact me directly at marni@alivestructures.com
Best, Marni Horwitz
Posted by: guest at May 20, 2008 3:49 PM
This is so cool! I've been googling "green roof" and "roof deck," because my husband and I are thinking of buying a house (typical Philadelphia brick structure--sort of a brick brownstone) to rehab, and we've wondered about the possibility and cost of doing some sort of green roof/roof deck combo, with solar panels! This is exactly what we had in mind! It's great to know that we can still do this, even with a small area!
Posted by: guest at June 9, 2008 10:42 AM
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