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August 6, 2007
Parlor Kitchen #6: Modern in Prospect Heights
The sweet kitchens just keep rolling in! Today's is in a 21-foot-wide brownstone in Prospect Heights with an almost identical rear parlor to ours. This is definitely on the modern side but works very nicely in the Italianate setting. Here's what the owner had to say:
The key for us is that we wanted to work with the existing detail and architecture of the room while at the same time making sure we had enough storage to have a fully functioning kitchen. The closet on the left serves as a pantry, while the one on the right stores pots and pans and also has a microwave and toaster oven. We put a light on top of the cabinets to accent the arch and detail above the stove and fridge. We thought about putting cabinets in the arch on the back wall, but decided against it to maintain optionality of potentially knocking the wall under the arch out to install a large window. We have a minimalist esthetic, and we find that modern furniture works quite well with the italianate detail. All of the cabinets were customed and the fancy appliances were purchased at substantial discounts from a scratch and dent warehouse (nothing visible). The dining table is from Ligne Roset and the chairs are Cassina.
The one question we have is whether it would have been better to try to do some under-counter fridges in that big island rather than squeeze the tall fridge into the nook with the stove. Either way, another gorgeous design.
Ideas for the Parlor Floor Kitchen? [Brownstoner]
Parlor Kitchen #1: Architect-Designed in The Slope [Brownstoner]
Parlor Kitchen #2: Contractor's Own Kitchen [Brownstoner]
Parlor Floor Kitchen #3: Jeffrey's 35-Footer [Brownstoner]
Parlor Kitchen #4: Spreading Out in a 22-Footer [Brownstoner]
Parlor Kitchen #5: Where the Party's At [Brownstoner]
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Comments
this is the most useful thing ever having a series on parlor floor kitchens. Thanks Brownstoner!!
Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 10:41 AM
There hasn't been a kitchen yet that I haven't liked for one reason or another.... all different, and very lovely.
Thanks to all for sharing pix of your parlor floor kitchens.
Posted by: bren at August 6, 2007 11:07 AM
The best so far! Great blend of modernity while maintaining the integrity of the brownstone architecture and detailing. Scalable and not overstated. Nicely done!
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:09 AM
cool. wouldn't it have been cool to put the fridge in one of those closets and cut the doors to panel the fridge doors somehow....
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:12 AM
beautiful to look at but not for somebody who likes to cook. just try assembling a complicated dish with so little counterspace. when my architect tried to float the center island, i insisted it go all the way to the wall so i could get two more feet of counter space. i've often wondered if i made the right decision-- it makes it a one person kitchen but at least i have a (much used) toaster oven and room for a fruit bowl.
Posted by: beckersny at August 6, 2007 11:13 AM
I Love it. But I can't for the life of me understand folks that come here and bash the place because its not "chef friendly" AS IF every brownstone in brooklyn is owned by a friggin' Chef!!!???
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:21 AM
Very lovely kitchen. It is a great blend of old and new. And it doesn't look overly modern.
Owner of lovely Prospect Heights kitchen - Where did you purchase the appliances?
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:26 AM
Who did you work with for your custom cabinets?
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:29 AM
It is beautiful but it seems so formal,
where is everything stored?
It would not work for me, I am a messy cook, it would drive me crazy to have to keep everything so super-neat all the time. Remember the SNL skit of the "anal compulsive chef"?
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:36 AM
11:21...Someone always shows up to bash the "non-chef friendly" kitchens because they're jealous. This is another beautiful kitchen!
Posted by: GHB at August 6, 2007 11:39 AM
I have to say, I don't think that the beckersny post and 11:36 should be lumped in with the previous haughty "That is obviously not a kitchen designed for a chef" posts in the other kitchen threads. Beckersny even questioned his/her own design decision while critiquing this beautiful kitchen - hardly bashing, just discussing.
I like the way it looks, but I agree, I would need more counter space, more storage space, more fridge space, and just generally more room for my messes. But I think this one looks great, and if it works for the cooking style of the owner, fantastic.
Posted by: Amy at August 6, 2007 11:49 AM
I am not bashing - all of the kitchens look great and I envy them.
But - I don't get this 'island' thing in almost all of these kitchens. Seems too suburban open family room sort of look.
If (big if) I were going to do this - I'd much prefer higher half-wall with counter-top lower on kitchen side. Even ends of counter top could be bit higher. This would block view of inevitable clutter on countertops (I don't beleive these people that, if they actually use these kitchens, don't have clutter on countertops).
My favorite neighbors kitchen just has pass-thru to dining room - so get the openness without view of all the kitchen appliances and mess.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:50 AM
"Seems too suburban open family room sort of look."
and?
so a highly, funtional design element can't be used in Brooklyn b/c it looks "suburban"?
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 11:57 AM
I too hate open kitchens -- I want some privacy so I can actually cook and not have to clean 24/7. These are in all the new condos going up. They look great for photos -- but what about after dinner with the family? At least with a house, this is not the focal point of the entire space. In these new cookie-cutter condos and gut renos, the kitchen is usually one if the four walls of the living/dining area so the viking/bosch/whatever stove/fridge is the focus of the entire living area. At 110 Livingston there was barely room for a dining table and a living area in the 1100 sq ft. 2bd/2 bath.
Thes designs are all great -- I love this one -- just couldn't live with it and a family!
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 12:07 PM
I have a frame house, not a brownstown, but the kitchen wasn't overly generous in size. I toyed with the idea of an island or a peninsula, but ultimately rejected it. We choose to partially open the kitchen onto the semi-formal dining room (with an arch). This allows great access, and the view of the kitchen is limited to cabinetry and a particularly good looking range that will go nameless, given the hostility of previous posts...
I am really happy we chose to keep the open layout in the kitchen. An island would have prevented my young son from playing comfortably in the kitchen (where I spend a lot of time). Plus, I like the feeling of space, generally.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 12:09 PM
definitely the best series in a while. Yes, do tell where you purchased the appliances. I am debating on going very high end given the crazy prices for some items. Not a gourmet, but still want a great look for less if I can get it.
Posted by: anonymous at August 6, 2007 12:12 PM
12:07 - agree about the combined living room kitchen thing. solved that by finding a condo where we could have a sep. living room which we did by re-configuring the rooms.
now, what was supposed to be our common kitchen/dining/living is just a big kitchen with tons of added built in storage and a really great long dining room table. kitchen has deep sink and dishwasher to hide cooking pots, utensils and look clean while dining. then, we can all go to the living room after dinner.
the ability to change it around, can be the advantage with new spaces. all these parlor kitchens look so small and uncomfortable to me.
also, this one just lacks counter and storage for sure. and, do think that the modern clashes somewhat wierdly with the 1800's thing. style, furniture would be better in a newer building or a loft.
Posted by: condo dweller at August 6, 2007 12:15 PM
Also love this series. This looks nice, although it's my least favorite so far. Whether a kitchen seems comfortable to cook in has nothing to do with being a "chef". I cook a lot and god knows, I'm no chef. But I would be frustrated to have so little counter space in general and particularly next to the stove.
Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 12:20 PM
I think they did a great job blending a minimalist, modern aesthetic with the 1800s-era Italianate details. Of course, it's all a matter of taste; this is my aesthetic exactly, but clearly it's not everyone's cup of tea. Here, a certain amount of storage space was given up in the name of minimalism, but don't forget that both closets are used for storage, so that actually adds more storage space than a few extra drawers or cabinets would have.
I think kitchen islands are useful and practical, but personally I would add a second level at the end of the island facing the dining area -- with or without room for stools at the counter, depending on space -- mostly so that counter clutter can be hidden from view. That way you've got the best of both.
JB, this is the best series ever! Keep it up! And after you run out of kitchens, how about: bathrooms, decks, gardens, entryways...? The possibilities are endless.
Posted by: Park Sloper at August 6, 2007 12:28 PM
Lovely! Thanks for sharing this kitchen with us.
I think it's helpful (except the occasional snarky tone which is not needed) to hear critiques of the kitchens in this series, because it helps people figure out what they want for their OWN kitchen. Which is the whole point of the series right?
Anyway regarding this kitchen, putting the fridge next to or near the stove/oven can make the fridge burn more energy and work harder to maintain the set temperature inside. FYI. Something for energy conscious kitchens to keep in mind.
About the open-layout, kitchen-in-a-corner-of-the-LR concept like we see in all the new condos in Brooklyn, has anyone thought about building up above the island? Like putting cabinets above, going all the way to the ceiling? It would serve as a bit of a room divider too, even if you can see through a little bit through an opening over the counter.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 12:39 PM
Anon 12:39, this idea about the fridge working harder next to the stove came up before, but I don't think it's likely to make a real difference. Ovens are insulated on the sides, and the cooktop is only being fired for short bursts during cooking. The real problem with putting the stove next to the fridge like this is that it;'s better to have some counter space on both sides of the stove. All this having been said, the taste level in this kitchen is off the hook. Gorgeous. And while I, too, like the idea of trying to get the fridge into one of those closets, they're just too small. The only parlors I've seen that had that were forced to go with tiny fridges. A better idea might be refrigerated drawers in the island.
Posted by: bob999 at August 6, 2007 12:59 PM
you did a wonderful job! gorgeous!
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 1:25 PM
When I cook, i need to have paper towels and dish cloths at the ready. I
need the knives out there, the cutting boards (separate for raw meats and veggies) the pots and lids and a colander and a grater, could not live without my food processor and blender.
all this stuff, to me, is just part of a kitchen which is a work area. These showcase kitchens are weird. Do you have to hide everything like your blender and your toaster and your coffe maker every day? My kitchen's not a mess, but it isn't an art gallery either. This isn't a kitchen, its an altar to the BauHaus or something. I love it when I don't like something that I could not afford anyway,
Posted by: Mildred Pierce at August 6, 2007 1:44 PM
To answer your question Mildred Pierce at 1:44pm, yes I actually do hide everything away every day! I HATE stuff sitting out on the counter all the time. Loathe it.
Just shows to each his/her own in a kitchen. I have more space than this kitchen shown here, but even with more space I prefer to put away my appliances.
The only way I'd like things sitting out for easy reach, is in a kitchen with all open shelves not cabinets, and bins that hang on the walls for utensils. But the fear for that plan, is dust and grease getting all over things that aren't used regularly. As for things "living" on the countertops though, like I said I hate it. I need plenty of workspace.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 2:03 PM
I have also been enjoying these kitchen posts tremendously. I don't get the comments by Mildred and others about these kitchens being "showcases" - nearly each owner has mentioned that they cook and the layouts work for them. I imagine if you walked into this PH kitchen right this minute you would probably find some clutter on the island and dish or two in the sink - but they did the right thing and cleaned up for the photos so we could see the design and not be distracted by the clutter.
Posted by: MarthaStewart at August 6, 2007 2:12 PM
This is why different layouts work for different people. I love to have all my appliances out and ready on my counter, my beautiful pots hanging from their rack, my pepper mills and fancy olive oil botles right out there on the open shelf. While other rooms may get dusty or whatever from lack of use, I have never had that problem with the kitchen.
It gets too much use. I love this series, love to see other people's kitchens.
Posted by: Midred P. at August 6, 2007 2:27 PM
how does that work with the island sink, did you have to put in a pro-vent? in general i quite like the kitchen, just wondering how you vent a sink in an island like that under city code. the cabinets with stainless are beautiful.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 2:53 PM
Where's the kitchen? I see a fancy appliance collection.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 3:21 PM
Where's the kitchen? I see a fancy appliance collection.
I think its those eleven inches between the Viking and the Sub-Zero.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 3:39 PM
beautiful kitchen-nice work! but I also ask myself (like anon 2:53) how did you vent the sink so that it is NYC Code compliant?
Posted by: jelly donut at August 6, 2007 3:52 PM
The sink drain pipe travels under the floor and connects to the vertical drain stack that is vented. What's the problem?
Posted by: Sam at August 6, 2007 4:11 PM
Anyone who loathes to see a toaster on a kitchen counter needs meds.
This kitchen doesn't even have a microwave.
are you kiddin' me?
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 4:22 PM
I put my toaster away after using it. ditto the blender, cuisinart, mixmaster, etc. Is that odd?
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 4:37 PM
If you have read the owners description you would know that they have pantries in both closets and have microwave & toaster in one of them. I have the same situation and it does work nicely - open the pantry door toast/microwave and other appliance right there to use and not in plain view.
Besides the pantries go all the way up to the ceiling so you have plenty of storage space on upper shelves for things you only use few times a year - like turkey roasting pan etc. Love it.
Posted by: mg at August 6, 2007 4:39 PM
you consider a microwave a necessity??
i haven't had one for the last 4 years and don't plan on using one again if i can help it.
Posted by: slopehead at August 6, 2007 4:43 PM
A microwave is not a necessity, neither is a cuisinart, or a toater, or an electric blender. But they are conveniences.
Some of us like the Spartan life. Some of us like gadgets.
I knew a lady when I was a kid that put a litle "cozy" over the telephone in her living room because she did not like looking at it. Other people soaked the mustard jar to remove the label because they did not like labels on the table. Not growing up in an overly fussy family, I took this in like a little Margaret Mead studying Samoan rituals. I thought it was odd then, I think its odd now, but hey, there is strength in diversity.
Whatever floats your boat.
Posted by: Mildred Pierce at August 6, 2007 4:56 PM
I put away my toaster. We don't use it THAT much that it needs to be sitting out getting dust inside where the bread goes. Our microwave is over the stove, installed, with a vent on it. Not as cool and fancy as the range hoods without microwaves, but in space-constricted NYC, I don't see how people don't put the microwave in that location. A friend of mine put her microwave in the island, below the counter. Though actually I'd think that's a really bad idea if you have children. One place I'd never put a microwave is in on top of a countertop. Uses up precious work surface.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 5:07 PM
Me again from 5:07, I guess rather than list all the appliances I put away, I can list the only things that sit out on the counters at all times in my kitchen - the coffeemaker and espresso maker. That's it.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 5:11 PM
Dear Homeowner:
Where did you get your appliances? How much in savings did you end up getting by purchasing your appliances from a scratch and ding warehouse?
Posted by: ryan at August 6, 2007 5:38 PM
Hey, homeowners, how about another picture with the two pantry doors open? For example, I'd be interested in knowing if you have your toaster and microwave set up for use in the closet on the right, or do you have to take them out and plug them in elsewhere before using? And are there storage shelves going all the way up in the pantry on the left? Do you use pull-out baskets of some kind in there? Thanks!
Posted by: Park Sloper at August 6, 2007 6:37 PM
you guys are being dingbats - anyone photographing their kitchen is going to clean it up. and please, read the description by the owner first!
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 8:05 PM
Doesn't each drain line need it's own vent? That's what my plumber told me. We had to do a lot of extra work in order to have an island sink. Believe me if we could have just met up with the other drain lines legally we would have.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 8:11 PM
each drain needs to be connected to the vent stack. if you go to your roof you will not see a pipe sticking up for each drain, but rather one per vent stack. mulitple drains are connected to the stack, the idea is just to equalize the air pressure in the system so that when a toilet flushes it will not cause a vacuum and suck up drain water into a sink or tub below. If you do not have a vent stack nearby, then you're in trouble and will have to create a new one that goes all the way to the roof.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 8:50 PM
this room is lovely but it doesn't look like a real kitchen.
I doubt very much that any woman was consulted in its design.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 8:55 PM
8:11pm,
Why are you stressing about how somebody else vented their kitchen sink. Who cares?
Obviously, counter-space is limited in this kitchen. You folks debating the issue are morons. It's a personal choice the owner made. To each his own.
I'd love to have a kitchen like that . . . not to mention a house like that with a deck and yard off the kitchen.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 8:59 PM
all of this is truly absurd.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 9:17 PM
all of this is truly absurd.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 6, 2007 9:17 PM
well the thing is with a vent stack like that you can only have a waste line travel something like 5-6 ft, i believe any further and you will get suction, i.e. the sink won't drain properly. also i belive code requires a of distance under 5 or 6 ft. anyway, the way people get around it is to put in a pro-vent which is perfectly fine in most states but it's not code in NYC.
Posted by: spencer at August 6, 2007 11:37 PM
brownstoner: "The one question we have is whether it would have been better to try to do some under-counter fridges in that big island rather than squeeze the tall fridge into the nook with the stove."
me: take the fridge away. center the stove under the arch, counter space on either side, with drawers under the counters.
rework the closet to the left of the stove (the one near the window) to accommodate the fridge. use the closet near the door as pantry. keep the arches on both of the closets, of course. it would take some work to open the closet near the window to fit the fridge, but it could be done. you'd probably have to lose the moulding on the stove side of the fridge.
it's better to have work space on either side of the stove, and centering it will provide symmetry.
still modern, still minimalist, still keeping the italiante structure.
methinks.
Posted by: suzy at August 7, 2007 12:42 AM
once that is done, you'll find that the island looks really short. it doesn't need to be an island at all. it could be extended to the yard wall, as there is an empty space there that could easily be employed as more work space.
you don't need room for people to mill about, as the dining room is right there.
methinks again. no me will stop methinking. good night.
Posted by: suzy at August 7, 2007 12:46 AM
The code in NYC is to link the waste pipe to the vent stack and remember your friendly DOB inspector at Christmas, no matter the time of year.
Anything else, anything, is AGAISNT CODE.
Posted by: Old Hand at August 7, 2007 9:39 AM
can you give more info about the "scratch and dent warehouse"? i'm re-doing my kitchen and would love to find some high end appliances at a discount! also, would anyone care to weigh in about marble countertops?
Posted by: anony at August 7, 2007 9:39 AM
You don't have to be a chef to not appreciate this kitchen. Roast a chicken and throw together a salad for 4 or 6 and what do your guests get to look at? The mess.
Looks fabulous though.
Posted by: EG at August 7, 2007 12:08 PM
Frankly, I couldn't care less if my guests see the mess. We want our kitchen to be in the middle of the action, so that when we do have people over - or are just trying to keep an eye on the kids play or watch TV or do homework - we can still be working in the kitchen and getting things done. If people see the accompanying mess, so be it - at least it proves I actually cooked, which seems to be a criticism often lobbed at pictures of really nice kitchens ("I bet they don't even cook on their $7K stove" etc.).
Posted by: Amy at August 7, 2007 12:14 PM
Ok - I'm the owner and will try to address some of the questions that have come up:
Q. Where are the microwave and toaster oven?
A. Hidden away in the closet on the right. They are plugged in so we don't need to take them out.
Q. Does your kitchen get messy when you cook?
A. Never
Q. Where to get a scratch and dent subzero?
A. Call the local distributors in CT and NY and ask for their scratch and dent "guy". Our fridge was returned because the handle was on the wrong side - so it was open box. Our stove had scratches on the side - which no one will ever see in our kitchen. Discounts were good but you may have to wait - we were doing a 9 month renovation on our house so we had the luxury of time.
Q. Do you have enough counter space?
A. Yes - the island is quite large (you can't tell scale from the picture). Never an issue.
Q. Was a woman involved in designing the kitchen and how could she possibly prepare a nice meal in this configuration? Is this really a kitchen?
A. My wife was in charge of designing the kitchen - and she is a woman. The kitchen is actually quite ergonomic - everything is just within reach and it works quite well. All of the meals that have come out of our kitchen have been excellent except for the turkey meatloaf (sorry honey). I can also assure you that this is a kitchen.
Q. Do you need more storage space?
A. One or two more drawers would be great. Note that the entire back of the island are "push" cabinets with magentic strikes - so there is a decent amount of storage. Shelves in the closets go all the way up as well. We also have a wall unit in the front parlor that houses our china, etc.
Q. Who made your cabinets?
A. Tasos Yerolemou at Custum CAS in Astoria (right on the water) - 718-726-3575
Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 1:27 PM
Thanks, owner for the answers.
Posted by: Anonymous at August 7, 2007 1:32 PM
Thank you, not only for the great info but for addressing this with humor (something I often have trouble doing on Gates Reno when I get a lot of criticism).
Posted by: Amy at August 7, 2007 2:19 PM
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