Admiral's Row: "Extremely High Level of Historic Integrity"
A tipster who must have a day job as a stenographer passed along some highlights from the “Assessment of Admiral’s Row” report that was prepared by Beardsley Design Associates and Crawford & Stearns for the National Guard and was made briefly available for public viewing on Tuesday night. One of the main aspects that the…
A tipster who must have a day job as a stenographer passed along some highlights from the “Assessment of Admiral’s Row” report that was prepared by Beardsley Design Associates and Crawford & Stearns for the National Guard and was made briefly available for public viewing on Tuesday night. One of the main aspects that the consultants were charged with evaluating was the “historic integrity” of the site as a whole and the buildings individually. Bottom line: If the results were a report card, Admiral’s Row would have Straight A’s.
After application of the aspects of historic integrity to the collective Admiral’s Row district with due consideration of existing deterioration, it is apparent that all seven aspects of historic integrity are strongly present. The Admiral’s Row district retains an extremely high level of historic integrity to the historical significance of the BNY…After application of the aspects of historic integrity to the individual buildings, with due consideration of existing deterioration, it is apparent that all seven spects of historic integrity are strongly present in nine of the ten Quarters.
The report goes on to say that Quarters B and D are “exceptional and retain an extremely high level of historic integrity” while H, K, L and I retain a “high level” of historic integrity. Only Quarter C doesn’t make the grade with the consultants. And what kind of shape are the buildings in structurally? “In general, the structural integrity for the original 19th Century portions of the buildings’ superstructure appear to be sound, level and plumb.”
p.s. Readers may be interested in checking out Gowanus Lounge’s take on the situation this morning.
Officers’ Row: Let’s Have Our Cake and Eat It Too [Brownstoner]
Officers’ Row Preservation Coming to a Contentious Head [Brownstoner]
For Officer’s Row, Supermarket All But Certain [Brownstoner]
Admiral’s Row Fixup to Cost $20M [NY Daily News]
Real Estate Round-Up [Brooklyn Eagle]
Photo from Officersrow.org
The restored buildings do not have to be used as bakeries or fancy boutiques. They can be used as a library, children’s center or even a navy yard museum. The lefferts house in Prospect Park is regularly used for children’s programs. I think this would be an excellent resource for the local community. Something that broadens a child’s scope of the world (which a parking lot does not) is the best way to better a community.
I’m not calling you stupid. I’m just saying that the ideas that are being put forth are not ground breaking great ideas. They are the obvious first couple of ideas that anyone with half a brain would think of – and since even 11:42 admits that the Navy Yard folks are only quasi-retarded, they have already had those ideas and figured out that they don’t work.
Fair question about my bona-fides. I have a masters degree and many years of work experience in city planning, architecture, urban design and real estate development. I have worked on many successful real estate projects, many of which have been in brooklyn. I regularly consult experts in related fields for data that I don’t know. I think it’s pretty hard to read all that I’ve written on this topic and not realize that I obviously have a ton of relevant work experience in related fields.
The boutiques and Cafe stuff did not come from me – that is what the Pratt professor was proposing to put in the houses once they were renovated. I got that from speaking to him and reading the flier that he handed out Tuesday night. I did not make that up.
I apologize for that reading comprehension remark. That was a joke that I couldn’t resist making. Actually, I apologize for any degrading or insulting comments I’ve made over the course of this argument. It always bothers when the discourse on Brownstoner gets mean and personal, and I did not mean to contribute to that. I just obviously care about this issue alot, and it upsets me when some folks on this website assume that the Navy Yard folks are too stupid or corrupt to do the basic analysis that any responsible project manager would have to do. I got a little emotional. However, I stand by all the facts that I’ve presented here. Nothing that anyone has written has shown me how one could save these buildings without getting a big fat subsidy from somewhere. And anyone out there who has ever tried to find huge subsidies for historic preservation projects knows that they are almost impossible to come by. Since that’s the situation here, the Navy Yard’s proposal to tear them down and build a supermarket still seems to be the best use of the site.
-Ella
Ok, Ella, I’ve really about had it with your smarmy, superior attitude. You’ve done nothing during this entire discourse but belittle anyone who disagrees with you or the Navy Yard’s position. You’ve called our ideas stupid, our projections and calculations wrong and stupid, and now you’re calling us stupid.
Are you an architect? I doubt it. Are you an urban planner, any kind of designer, a builder, a contractor, a civil engineer? Do you have a degree in historic preservation, or years of experience working in any of the above fields? Because if you don’t, who died and made you the expert? And who appointed you the judge of what is or isn’t a good idea? Who made you the Decider? Are you on the board of decisions?
I ask this because, especially in your last post, you use the official “I” quite a bit.
“The problem is that all of the ideas that I’ve seen put forth on this blog are neither brilliant nor creative.” (again – bona fides, please. I’d like to see your degrees or expertise that entitles you to dismiss anyone’s else’s out of hand. If a panel of recognized experts told me any of our ideas sucked, and explained why, I’d back down. You? Who the hell are you?)
“I don’t really think that high end boutiques and cafes will fly in this neighborhood as an adaptive re-use.” (I checked – NOBODY suggested that, except you in yesterday’s post – you went there on your own)
“I believe I have been educating you all with plenty of facts throughout this conversation” (Because you stated them, that makes them facts? Yeah, that’ll fly, especially from someone who has yet to confirm or deny their obviously tight business, or other relationship with the Navy Yard, yet has access to the inner workings of those in charge. Neutral party, or concerned independent citizen – NOT)
And lastly, my favorite – “I know they might be hard for you to see since they are randomly placed between all my condescension. Maybe if you were better at reading comprehension, you’d pick them up.” – Oh, I comprehend just fine. What you don’t seem to comprehend is that the Navy Yard doesn’t belong to you. You have no clue as to the experiences, expertise, education, successes or failures of the people who post their ideas and opinions on this board. A little more open mindedness, and less judgemental dismissal of people, might go a long way to a meaningful discussion that could provide good ideas. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t bother to write.
Note to those in charge of Navy Yard – if Ella works for you, she’s not helping your cause. You catch more bees with honey than with dripping condescension and bile.
Preservationista
Ella,
you seem pretty smart.
You have to admit that the guys who run the Navy Yard are quasi-retarded. Do you work there? Are you emotionally tied to whosis, the new navy yard presidente?
I know its disrespectful but this is America, it is not Venezuela. Citizens have every right to question and possibly embarass officials. And in this case I don’t think the hazing is over.
Anon 7:45 – You started to make some good points but then you went right back into the kind of thing that bothers me.
“I’m sure one of our local elected officials (or the Navy Yard themselves) would have negotiated with the NYPD in regard to their tow pound lot and had them move it so a supermarket could be built.”
Yeah? What makes you so sure? Do you have any idea what that entails? No you don’t. FYI at the very beginning of this process the Navy Yard went to City Hall and tried to get the tow pound moved. They got a big fat lesson from City Hall in how hard it is to move a tow pound and were given a big no. Instead, they were only allowed to rearrange the tow pound and gain an acre or two that way, on which they are building new industrial buildings to further their mission.
What I’m trying to say is that you are all accusing the Navy Yard of not listening to your brilliant creative ideas. The problem is that all of the ideas that I’ve seen put forth on this blog are neither brilliant nor creative. They are all ideas that the Navy Yard has already thought of, done some research on, and rejected because they don’t work. If someone would propose a single alternative idea that had not already been thought of, analyzed and dismissed then you all would have the right to be upset. But to date, no one has.
Like I said before, the only real counter position I’ve heard that I respect is that the gov’t (City, State, or Fed) should provide the Navy Yard with the subsidy to fix up the houses. I don’t agree with it, but I respect it. I don’t agree with it because I think that that money could be better used elsewhere in preserving some of the other historic buildings in both the Navy Yard and the rest of the City that also need to be restored. Also – if you do restore them I don’t really think that high end boutiques and cafes will fly in this neighborhood as an adaptive re-use. However, I can see how reasonable people would disagree on this. Unfortunately, the City and Feds have not offered up that subsidy, so it’s irrelevant anyway.
All this other crap about having your cake and eating it too strikes me as a huge diversion and a waste of time.
And preservationista (i’m assuming that’s you at 8:37pm) I’m not saying you are unpatriotic for questioning authority. I am saying that the way in which many people here are questioning authority (i.e. by calling the Navy Yard officials quasi-retarded or corrupt) is extremely disrespectful and ungrateful. And I believe I have been educating you all with plenty of facts throughout this conversation. I know they might be hard for you to see since they are randomly placed between all my condescension. Maybe if you were better at reading comprehension, you’d pick them up.
-Ella
I really don’t think there are many intelligent ideas coming from the Navy Yard or from the community activists.
I say sell the Yard to private entreperneurs, then we will see smart ideas.
3:57, you must have huge problems with reading comprehension, as I said nothing of the kind. These buildings (all 3 sites) are unique because of their histories, locations, etc. The fact that thousands of other different 19th century buildings exist really isn’t the point.
Ella, you still come off as an apologist, and some kind of official voice for the Yard. Last I heard, everyone is still entitled to their opinions, and that is all any of us have given. If we are wrong, then educate us with facts and figures, not condescension and an almost patriotic, you’re either with us or a traitor, administration like attitude. I don’t see where questioning any authority makes any of us “irresponsible” or Shahn Anderson a “huckster” for stating that in his expert opinion, he thinks their estimates for restoration wrong. How many buildings have you renovated or developed?
If you want to change minds and hearts, take 7:45’s most excellent post to heart – “it’s really not respectful to all of us people who can quite competently understand the financial and political realities of developing this site and would prefer to be part of the process than be told (by you) who has intelligent ideas and who doesn’t.”
The problem is that the Navy Yard is run by quasi-gevernment entities who are, sorry, quasi-retarded. They run it like eleven year old boys. Landmark the important buildings and sell the goddam place to private business people. Then you will see American know-how and savvy kick in to gear.
Right now it is like a tree house club run by little boys, no girls allowed. believe me, I know the navy yard. There is absolutely nothing smart there, it has been brain dead for years. I repeat, because it is an important point: it has been brain dead for years. It has been a wasted and under-used resource for too long.
Exactly Ella, “this is not a black and white easy issue.” Then the Navy Yard should not treat it as one. They may have done plenty of their own analysis, but they have not been transparent about anything other than presenting their plan as they see it. That is not community-based planning. They have been quoting $50 million to restore the buildings before this new report came out. And when Mr. Kimbal starts the discussion with “we do not want the land with any preservation restrictions attached” (paraphrasing), it’s really not respectful to all of us people who can quite competently understand the financial and political realities of developing this site and would prefer to be part of the process than be told (by you) who has intelligent ideas and who doesn’t. I agree, this has nothing to do with corruption, but it is definitely short sighted, and the public housing community, which the Navy Yard has suddenly taken an interest in, is being used as pawns in political grandstanding. If it was so crucial to get a supermarket and fresh produce near the Farragut houses all these years, I’m sure one of our local elected officials (or the Navy Yard themselves) would have negotiated with the NYPD in regard to their tow pound lot and had them move it so a supermarket could be built. That option should still be on the table. After all, sounds a lot less complicated given that the City already owns that land, not the Feds. If the Navy Yard wants everyone’s support, they should release their financial projections, including the income they expect to bring in on this supermarket tenant, to the public. After all, the BNYDC is a non-profit that manages city owned land, and should be as transparent and open to scrutiny as possible. With all of the data open to all, reasonable people can make reasonable conclusions.