Is Your Stoop Private Property?
Maybe not, based on this tale of post-DNC speech imbibing on a Park Slope stoop that resulted in a $25 ticket. Here’s the tale from Park Slope Parents: My husband was IMing and having a beer last night on our stoop after Biden’s speech…NYPD roll up in a patrol car and busted him for an…
Maybe not, based on this tale of post-DNC speech imbibing on a Park Slope stoop that resulted in a $25 ticket. Here’s the tale from Park Slope Parents:
My husband was IMing and having a beer last night on our stoop after Biden’s speech…NYPD roll up in a patrol car and busted him for an open container violation for 25 bucks…he was very polite and told the NYPD he was appreciative of their presence, but asked asked about the public/private space concept, and he explained that if I was behind a fence or gate I would be ok. Since we don’t have a gate, the set-back from the sidewalk didn’t matter.
I was reading a bit about this online today…there is some opinion that the officer needs to report the actual brand of the alcohol being consumed or it won’t hold up in court. The cop actually asked him “What kind of beer are you drinking?” which I thought was odd at the time, but he didn’t write the brand on the ticket. Anyhow, the cops were polite and my husband was polite and overall just a goofy story…we’ll probably just write the check for $25 and mail it in rather than burning up a bunch of time contesting the thing.
Has this happened to anyone else?
Park Slope Row. Photo by senatorpeter6.
Okay, so a couple friends and I were very quietly sharing a bottle of wine and talking tonight on the front stoop of our brownstone and we were all given a summons/$25 ticket. And while it’s not the $25 that upsets me, but the fact that I’m concerned that this may affect me at work as I work in a field that requires extensive background checks. I have to agree that the front stoop does not seem to meet the criteria for the law (thus the reason we were drinking there in the first place).
I also have to agree with those who stated that the NYPD should have more important things to do. I would be lying if I didn’t say that I’m a little pissed off that the NYPD has time to circle my block 8 times and write us a ticket for a quiet drink on what I consider to be our own private property while the 2 men that gang-raped me are running free because the detective on my case doesn’t have the time to investigate the case and took a month just to make a single phone call.
Searched up this thread because my friend was served a summons for a beer on the stoop.
I posit that it is, indeed, quite legal to drink on your own stoop.
Let’s review the NYCAC 10-125 wording again:
2. Public place. A place to which the public or a substantial group of persons has access including, but not limited to, any highway, street, road, sidewalk, parking area, shopping area, place of amusement, playground, park or beach located within the city except that the definition of a public place shall not include those premises duly licensed for the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages on the premises or within their own private property. Such public place shall also include the interior of any stationary motor vehicle which is on any highway, street, road, parking area, shopping area, playground, park or beach located within the city.
Okay. A place = The stoop portion of a private residence
The public = the people as a whole and/or a substantial group of persons
access = permission, liberty, or ability to enter, approach, or pass to and from a place or to approach or communicate with a person or thing b : freedom or ability to obtain or make use of something c : a way or means of access d : the act or an instance of accessing
Let’s begin with a semantic argument (or incongruity #1):
Neither the people as a whole nor a substantial group of persons (whatever that means) has “access” to a stoop simultaneously due to the size limitations of said space.
Incongruity #2:
No one except the owner/tenants/authorized guests is allowed on any part of the privately owned real property at any time or for any reason. That is to say that the people as a whole have neither permission nor liberty and thereby no (legal) ability to occupy the space/cross the threshold; a private stoop is a place to which the public does not have access.
This is 100% logically sound, which means that it is probably wrong. To me, the legality seems irrefutable, but pigs are pigs and the city is quite intent on nickel-and-diming its people for every last drop. Regardless, I have consumed several hundred beers on my stoop and will continue to do so. The pigs can eat my shorts, as it were.
Man, if there was ever a case of “Don’t tread on me.” this is it.
My friend and i split a bottle of champagne on my front stoop area and she was worried about it. I told her the cops should be more worried about the crack dealers down the street, and so they were. A foot patrol went by and merely nodded at me. I drunkenly waved back.
There could be another wrinkle to the public/private property discussion. If you check the survey of many properties with high stoops, you will find that that part of the stoop and the front yard area are actually not within the bounds of the property. In some cases the line leaves about half the stoop out of the property boundary. Wonder how that plays into the argument concerning the gate given by the officer. 🙁
Had this happen to me on my own stoop (no fence). The ticket required a court appearance; I showed up and it was dismissed immediately (same thing for neighbor, who was having a beer with me). We were polite and cooperative, so it is possible the cops may have written up a faulty summons on purpose. In all, it wound up costing me nothing and wasting half an hour of my life waiting on line (I didn’t have to sit through any class, either).
After I was ticketed, I asked a cop friend what the deal was – he said that if we had gone into the house, the cops wouldn’t pursue. Don’t know if I believe that.
Now I drink out of a plastic cup when I’m on the stoop.
I wouldn’t think so, z. You would be within your personal home and within the building- even the terrace.
Standing naked on the balcony might be a little different! More of a share the fun thing.
there’s a difference between what the law is and how it is enforced. just because cops write tickets for something doesn’t mean it’s actually prohibited by law. it may just mean that the penalties are so small that no one bothers with a legal challenge.
also, ‘visible to the public’ isn’t the test. can you get a ticket if you are drinking in your living room and people can see you from the sidewalk through the window? can you get a ticket if you are drinking on a private balcony that is visible from the street?
The truth of the matter is if you can be seen drinking alcohol in public (which is a vague term), on your stoop or property which is visable to the public you can be given a ticket. Prior to the mid 80’s the police didn’t inforce this rule — now the city needs any penny (or $25-$100.) it can make on tickets. They (the police) now actually do come up to people drinking from containers consealed in brown bags and ask to inspect what is inside the brown paper bag.
I just had a convo. with my dad (retired city cop). Althought he’s not familiar with the specific codes in Brooklyn he seems to think it really boils down to how the local precincts interpret and enforce the codes. In “problem” areas they may tend to be a little more wide sweeping with their interpretations and quicker to enforce them while in areas that see few problems with regard to public drunkenness (and it’s spin-offs- violence, vandalism, etc.) they may not feel it’s something worth enforcing. He pointed out if you always have the same guy sitting on his stoop consuming alcohol for extended periods it’s probably a nosy neighbor calling the cops and therefor “forcing their hand”.
Take it for what it’s worth.