The Waiting Game for Elementary Schools
The Times and The Wall Street Journal had articles recently about how it’s the time of year when some parents find their kids on waiting lists for their zoned elementary schools, and both stories highlighted areas in Brooklyn where parents have found themselves in this predicament. The Times story says that while the DOE hasn’t…
The Times and The Wall Street Journal had articles recently about how it’s the time of year when some parents find their kids on waiting lists for their zoned elementary schools, and both stories highlighted areas in Brooklyn where parents have found themselves in this predicament. The Times story says that while the DOE hasn’t yet compiled stats on whether there are more students than seats this year, “there were signs that the space crunch may only be getting worse.” In the Park Slope/Windsor Terrace area, a parent found out that his child was one of 47 on a waiting list for P.S. 107, which did not have a waiting list last year, and nearby schools like P.S. 10, P.S. 295 and P.S. 154 didn’t have space for his kid, either. The story notes that when P.S. 133, on 4th Avenue and Butler (pictured above) is completed in 2013, it is expected to alleviate overcrowding issues in the area, while Councilman Brad Lander has the following to say: “A lot of new buildings have gone up in this neighborhood, and a lot of new families have moved in…Unfortunately, in the big picture, it seems like we didn’t do enough as a city to create the infrastructure for growth before the growth.” Meanwhile, The Journal article says that there are 95 students on the wait list for P.S. 169 in Sunset Park. Any readers in this situation with their zoned school right now?
In Packed Districts, Lists for a School Spot Grow [NY Times]
An Unhappy Rite of Spring: The Wait List [WSJ]
Re: PS 282, I’m pretty sure it is no longer undercapacity for the facility. It was expanded to a middle school 3 years ago, adding a grade every year, and this year is the first year it extends through 8th grade.
I think many parents would not find 282 as it is now an attractive option. Our child is in one of the upper grades in the elementary school and we have tried to move her elsewhere because she is so unhappy. In our view the problem is mostly the behaviour of the children who go there. Many of the kids are more aggressive than I’m comfortable with, and the kids especially in the upper grades and middle school are disrespectful, rowdy, and rough in class.
Many teachers there have been very good, with most giving 100% every day in a really difficult teaching environment. The administration really tries (though I’m no fan of the principal) but they have been stretched thin with the addition of the middle school. There are kids who are not being disciplined because if every issue was handled appropriately, it seems teachers would have time for little else – there’s just too much to deal with – so the amount of disruption going on in my child’s classes isn’t even close to acceptable.
If PS 282 is the best elementary near Park Slope that District 13 has to offer, that’s pretty disappointing, and no school in 15 has room to accept us. We own a great place so moving would be a huge step for us. Maybe the new 133 or DOE acquisition of St. Thomas will help, or rezoning. We hope something changes for the better.
I live in the 107 zone and find it odd that last year there was no waiting list and this year there are 47 kids on the waiting list. There are only 100 kindergarten seats at 107 and Lander’s statement that there are new buildings doesn’t fly b/c only one of these new buildings is in the zone (the Iroquios with only dozen apts and probably not more that 3-4 max kids entering k). What happened?
Also part of the problem is that this was a surprise. I’m on 107’s mailing list and they didn’t even hint at the possibility of a waiting list. Why didn’t 107 spread the word about this earlier? 107’s admin must have known that they were way over 100 apps when apps were submitted. These parents are screwed–and I’m glad I’m on the sidelines this year!–deadlines for seats in other publics and seats in privates have passed. Any schools with spots are not only pretty far away, they are in a different district (282 is in dist, 13 and Park Slope is in dist 15).
PS. lechacal take a look at the zone or walk around here sometime–almost no new buildings/no condo conversions in the zone. my bock is 100 yr old apt buildings 1/2 rental/half coop on one side and houses on the other. 4th ave isn’t in the zone so all those new buildings aren’t part of the overcrowding.
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!
DOES THIS MEAN MY CRAPPY CONDO CONVERSION ISNT’ WORTH A MILLION DOLLARS AFTER ALL?????
WAIT, I ACTUALLY LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY???? OH NO OH NO OH NO – I THOUGHT I WOULD BE PROTECTED AND SPECIAL IF I MOVED TO PARK SLOPE!!! I ACTUALLY LIVE IN A MASSIVE CITY WITH A BUDGET CRISIS?? WHAT DO I DO NOW?
I disagree,
I chose Arts and Letters because my child didn’t have the test scores for MS 51, my child doesn’t care for math and science, my child didn’t want to focus on the arts, etc. Ease of travel also was a factor. Having said that it has not worked out but I was unable to transfer my child back into District 15 because there are no seats even at the lower performing schools.
The DOE can keep doing this because they have the fiscal excuse and because parents naturally tend to offer “what’s best for me” as the optimal solution. For example, lots of 107 zoned parents on the WL are arguing that pre-k should be eliminated, but other parents seem most outraged that they might have to do a pre-k dropoff at a different school than a k dropoff.
And make no mistake, the most vocal families will be the ones who moved into the zone or stayed in it specifically because of 107. Yet how many of them do you think would be loudly complaining if PS 321 were offered as a backup? As an aside, I am in D13 and fwiw, I don’t know anyone who would send their kids to ps 282 from out of our zone. It’s just not appreciably better, if better at all, from what I can see (as an outsider, of course) than our zoned school and isn’t in he neighborhood.
As a point of policy, if you live in d15 but choose to go to a d13 elem such as 282, you are eligible for d15 and d13 middle schools. That may change, of course, but there are many reasons not to expect it to.
Lastly, Arts and Letters is located in D13, despite that it’s not zoned, and pretty much everyone agrees d13 is in need of more great options at both elem and ms levels. I am not a believer in the “choice” model at elem, because I think it’s going to cost more and provide less in the long term, and provides for too few in the current model. That said, I don’t understand why d15 parents who generally have a few more good options at both levels, need to have more seats at A&L. (Yes, I get that D 13 lost ms seats in the expansion, but at the numbers we’re talking, it’s throwing dice anyway.)
“I also suspect there are a number of students at the more desirable schools who do not actually live in the zone.”
True, and not just at schools like 107/321/29/8. PS 282 has long been a haven for families from elsewhere in Dist. 13, who value its traditional model and serious approach to education. PS 20 in Fort Greene has many students from outside the zoned area, as does PS 11. So did PS 8 before it became crazy popular with Heights/DUMBO parents. The whole system is a crazy quilt of parents doing whatever they need to do to get their kids out of failing schools. And mediocre schools. And schools where the majority of students happen not to be of the same racial background. With all the new development that is not supported by infrastructure, i.e. new schools, it is even more of a mess than it was before.
Does anyone know where to find a map of the various districts and catchment areas for the individual schools? When the school on Butler and 4th Ave is complete, do other schools catchment areas shift because the new school is alleviating pressure on other schools?
“No, I think it is a capacity issue.”
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That may be true in part, but many of these schools (at least in Park Slope and surrounding areas) are all relatively close to one another. For example, many kids zoned for and attend P.S. 321 actually live closer to P.S. 282. So by simply shifting the schools’ zoned areas overcrowding can be alleviated or at least decreased (imagine the uproar if, or should I say, when that eventually happens).
Plus young couples with kids or kids on the way choose to live in certain areas primarily based upon the zoned schools’ reputations therefore causing the capacity issue. Personally, my wife and I moved to Third St. in Park Slope due to the fact is is zoned for P.S. 321 and in District 15. Didn’t even consider anything north of Union St.
“I also suspect that there are a number of students at the more desirable schools who do not actually live in the zone.”
Definitely. This is because of the rule that even if a family moves out of the school zone, they can continue to attend the school, not just for the rest of the school year, but until they graduate. Unfortunately this is not helping the overcrowding issue.