Argon/Krypton
I had a quote done on windows yesterday, and the gentleman told me that most argon gas leaks out of windows after a few (4-5) years. Is this correct? Or is he just selling inferior windows/warranty?
I had a quote done on windows yesterday, and the gentleman told me that most argon gas leaks out of windows after a few (4-5) years. Is this correct? Or is he just selling inferior windows/warranty?
I have a gentleman pitching triple pane windows with krypton made my schuco. He insists the krypton is the way to go as it is much better than argon. He also says they have a lifetime warranty. So for me, the gas leaks out in 5+ years or not seems irrelevant if they plan to replace them for free. My issue is with the last comment I read about vaccuum sucking in the panes and exploding! Triple pane, krypton, lifetime warranty (12 38×55 windows for around $7,000 installed…good deal?
I just went through the argon implosions. After 12 years my argon gas leaked out of my windows and two exploded this winter. The gas leaks out and a vacuum sucks in the panes. The company sent out a tech. with two new sashes; seven months later. They also tested all of the existing windows. Most of them were then drilled. They let the pressure equalize and then resealed like a car windshield. Ain’t that crazy! I wouldn’t bother with gases again.
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I’m not a developer in CT, but first a good SDL material is not very thermally conducting. And more importantly the reason argon or krypton is added to the windows is to slow down convection currents within the cavity between the window panes. They do this because they are heavier gases than nitrogen. Nitrogen has an atomic weight of about 14 vs 40 for argon and 84 for Krypton. This is fine and all, but a much more effective way to slow convection currents is to shrink the space in which the convection current can operate, which is what both simulated and actual divided light windows do.
If you really could seal the space between the windows so it was airtight for 5+ years you would just make the cavity a vacuum so that there would be no convection current at all. I seriously doubt that the krypton and especially the lighter argon are still performing well 20 days out of the factory, much less 20 years.
Krypton will probably stay in there longer because it’s a bigger molecule, and it is also better at stopping heat stealing convection currents while it is still there. Double and triple pane windows must use a non-dense material to form the seal between the panes for thermal efficiency so there is no way to make them completely gas tight with conventional materials.
You could theoretically use a welded closed cell aerogel seal, but this material currently is so expensive that it would costs millions of dollars to use it to build seals for the windows in a house. And it is also fragile, so it might not even perform very well in conventional double hung windows.
All that said, most high efficiency windows have argon or krypton by default because they are only slightly more expensive than the conventional nitrogen fill. The other features these windows have, such as the thin film filters that are opaque to non-visible forms of light will long outlast the gas and these high efficiency windows will still perform better in the long run. Unfortunately, window manufacturers are not required to post the performance numbers for their windows once nitrogen and other gassed from the atmosphere displaces the original argon/krypton fill so you can’t compare price+performance across product lines or manufacturers. Just buy windows that look good and have decent initial numbers. Decent initial numbers at least tell you the windows don’t have serious manufacturing defects such as a solid metal thermal conductor between inside and outside in the frame of the window.
Explain how a SDL window insulates better than a window without the extra thermal bridging SDL creates.
Also, decent gass filled windows will last 20 years, not 5- check the warranty.
Look at the windows glazing and spacer technology as well.
Thank you!
I am a developer in CT. We just bought $300k worth of Marvin windows. We opted out of the argon gas for that same reason you brough up. After sitting down with reps from about 10 mfgs. ALL of the sales people said that the argon leaks and there is no real way for anyone to test this short of bringing them to a laboratory. I say go with a quality brand with a good warranty and shop the price to different vendors. Jeld Wenn, Marvin, Pella are all top notch. Anderson is a step down. also you are better off getting simulated divided light SDL with interior spacers, this will far outperform any energy savings the argon would have provided. good luck!