Brownstone gas fireplace
Does anyone operate the original gas fireplaces in their brownstone? Can it be done safely? Alternatively, has anyone replaced the original gas fireplace with a newer more modern one? If so, how involved was that process?
jurist
in Chimney and Fireplace 9 years and 10 months ago
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11 replies
jurist | 9 years and 10 months ago
Sorry my email wasn’t clear. We have two gas fireplaces on the parlor floor. One in the back parlor and one in the middle parlor. Both have their own chimneys. I had thought, based on my own rudimentary online research, that direct vent fireplaces are not vented through chimneys, but through horizontal piping directly outside–and that that arrangement made them more efficient having something to do with the distance that air has to travel to get outside. In other words, better heat efficiency because venting vertically through a chimney takes longer than venting horizontally through a wall directly outside. This may be totally false. It’s not a question that I asked of Big Apple. (As for my set up, although the horizontal distance from my middle parlor to the outside (back of house) is shorter than the vertical distance through the chimney to the roof, it is impossible for me to accomplish.) Firebox!!!! That is the term that was escaping me before. The Big Apple guy basically said that a firebox is needed if we’re going gas or woodburning and the he stated that he would do the same brick firebox for both types of fireplaces. (I think, but don’t quote me here, that he said with the gas insert we could cover the brick firebox with the decorative plates that are there now, but that could not be done with wood burning.)
NeoGrec | 9 years and 10 months ago
Jurist: Perhaps I’m not understanding your set up but the idea of venting a gas fireplace in the middle parlor through a chimney in the rear parlor doesn’t sound viable to me. But if you have an existing chimney in the middle parlor, it should be much less expensive to vent the insert than to rebuild it to be wood burning. The heat from a WBF is really intense so you’d need a fire box built of fire bricks and a smoke damper to be constructed. For gas, while you do need a fireproof barrier between the insert and your walls and floor, it can be achieved by using cement board. Then you’d need a round metal flue pipe inserted into your chimney which again is much less costly than a WBF conversion requiring a new terracotta flue. Regarding the height of the chimney and the gas insert’s efficiency, I wasn’t aware there would be a very negative impact if it’s tall. Is that what Big Apple told you?
jurist | 9 years and 10 months ago
Just went to the Valor website. They do have units that look like they could definitely fit in our brownstone fireplace. I did not see any information about how many square feet the smaller units heat. I also notice that these are direct vent inserts–which I understand provide more heat efficiency because they can be directly vented out of an adjacent wall (versus going through a vertical chimney through the roof). I am not sure how we would accomplish a direct vent scenario since the fireplace we are talking about is in our middle parlor. I don’t think there’s any way to easily create a pipe pathway in the wall for it to vent directly through the outside as the pipe would have be routed through a whole other room (our the back parlor)–a room that has a fireplace and chimney along the same wall. Anyway, looking forward to learning whatever you find out. Thanks!
NeoGrec | 9 years and 10 months ago
I’m still optimistic that the Valor President is a viable gas insert for a brownstone fireplace. I’ve read great reviews online about it’s heating capacity, in spite of its small size. After I’ve met with the Fire Glow folks, I’ll post on the forum about what they say.
landlord | 9 years and 10 months ago
I am thinking of getting a gas fireplace installed in a few months. In order for a gas fireplace to heat up 1000sq ft you will need a unit producting around 20,000 Btu’s. There seems to be many small options with that kind of output. In addition, the gas units I have been looking at come out about 20 inches from the wall…so I loose very little space in my living room. I called big apple chimney as well and set up an appointment to discuss options. Thanks for sharing your experience
jurist | 9 years and 10 months ago
So we met with a guy from Big Apple Chimney over the week-end. He seemed really knowledgeable and has actually done quite a few fireplaces on in our nabe (PLG). We considered wood burning fp, a wood stove and finally more modern gas insert–the fireplaces we have now are gas, but ancient. We were told by the Big Apple guy that to do a wood burning stove involves more legal hassle as there are more regulations around wood stoves. He also explained how much bigger the footprint would be in terms of extending from the fireplace and we don’t want to give up that much real estate on the parlor floor. (So despite the fact that a wood burning stove would be the most efficient from a heating perspective, the cons outweigh it as an option.) Between doing the conversion to wood burning or keeping the gas, as may be obvious, gas is more expensive (to set up, not maintain). The chimney/flue work apparently is all the same–and in our case we also would need new dampers and work done in the fireplace areas themselves because we only have decorative metal plating as the backing and apparently the backing needs to be some sort of stone/brick scenario (I forget the technical term he used) and the nice vintage tilework that is the floor of each fireplace would have to be replaced with some sort of stone/brick work (inside of the fireplace, but the tilework outside the fireplace could remain). If we wanted to go gas we’d incur additional cost for the gas insert as well as plumbing certification on the the gas line(s) that would run to the units. Given the size of our fireplaces, I was told that the gas units that could easily fit would not necessarily be that much more heating efficient than a wood burning fireplace. I questioned the guy about this because I have read about gas units that heat 1000 square feet. He said that those are much larger units that would require ripping out the entire fireplace area to accommodate. (So that is a non-starter.) In terms of pricing, we were told that the chimney/flue work and all the stone work (fireplace floor and 3-side backing) would probably run about $7500 per fireplace. This was an average price not based on an actual inspection of the condition of our chimneys. For gas, you would have to add the price of the gas insert as well as the plumbing work. I don’t have a negative reaction to the pricing, as I figured it would be expensive. This is no doubt a next year project for us. I think we’ll go wood versus replacing the gas insert since the heat differential is not substantial–obviously the environmental toll is greater I guess with wood. (I’ll just have to go greener in other aspects of my life to try to make up for it!) Anwyay, thanks everyone for the comments!
NeoGrec | 9 years and 10 months ago
We have 2 restored WBFs. I’m thinking of installing a gas insert in the one on the 2nd floor because we never use it to burn wood — too much hassle. The model I’m eyeing is the Valor PRESIDENT which appears to fit many small brownstone fireplaces. It’s about $3,200 before installation. Local dealer is Fire Glow on Staten Island.
jurist | 9 years and 10 months ago
Thx everyone. I’m meeting with Big Apple Chimney this morning for a consultation. Will report back. We are focused on the two gas fireplaces on our parlor floor. We don’t use that floor much, but when we do want to use it in the winter for the infrequent occasions that we have company, we don’t want to have to plug in two space heaters to be comfortable. For reasons unknown our parlor floor is simply the coldest floor in our house.
landlord | 9 years and 10 months ago
I am actually looking to have a direct vent gas fireplace installed in my wood frame house. The model I am leaning towards is the Mendota FV41\. It is a high efficiency model and produces around 40,000 BTU’s. Enough to easily heat 1500sq ft. The unit runs around $4700 and the cheapest price I found was $4300\. Figure another $1500 for the install. However, for a brownstone I would choose an insert from the site recommended by dave.