In search of ceramic european style wood burning stove
Our house has several grandfathered wood burning fireplaces.
They are assumed functional.
However:
the central chimney has 2 fireplaces, one is closed up, just decorative, non-functional. another is working, but surrounds are in bad shape, box as well, and central chimney needs lining, so obviously we do not use it now.
Chimney need relining anyhow. It is huge and free of obstacles.
But instead of rebuilding the box and surrounds I really wanted something like tiled european style stove.
This is one of the examples –
https://www.lacastellamonte.it/en/ceramic-stoves/classiche-collection/
but there are many more options, well, in Europe.
High efficiency, clean burning, EPA certified.
Main idea is to have something better and more efficient then traditional fireplace or cast iron stove because those ceramic stoves built to use a bit more heat mass principles.
Did you hear anything about an availability of those products in NYC?
Again, fireplace is legal and grandfathered. We just want to do something better with it.
Fire wood of good quality is not a problem.
It would be not the main source of heat ( we have a 93% efficiency boiler), so it is supplemental, for fun and an emergency backup (because it is literally in the center of the house.
opoddubnaya.bootsoft
in Chimney and Fireplace 6 days ago
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6 replies
Brownstone Home Inspection | 5 days ago
Olga, not sure i understand how you plan to do some of this and thus questioning if the firebox needs to be fully restored if a stove goes in front of there. if it is not being used as a fire place, i would say anyone can use refractory mortar to reset or point those bricks. if it were to be used as a fire place, i would say it may need rebuild. keep in mind, there are codes on how close a stove can be to combustibles and those codes also define how much brick should be in front of combustibles when retrofitting a stove install in front of finished drywall in a frame house. You won’t have that, you will have mortar. It may not be the best mortar, but it will still be mortar, not wood.
in so far as the area you see when you look in and up, that is the smoke chamber. years ago you could see exposed brick up there but now folks in these old houses are having these areas parged with mortar. that seems to come recommended by experts and is being taught as standard practice. i followed the link to the stove you are looking at and i am thinking the smoke chamber can be opened like a hearth in a big old fireplace, the brick above would just have to be supported above by running a lintel across (the same way the brick over the hearth is supported in front; some of these have wood believe it or not, others have stone and more recently, they use steel).
above the smoke chamber is the flue. these were unlined, originally. just bricks. starting in 20th century they lined them with terra cotta. the unlined chimneys are now considered a deficient. i think you mentioned running a flue up and out using flame proof materials (i think these protective units that isolate flues are called “thimbles”) as it passes through combustible construction elements. You can possibly leave the chimney and flue and run the metal flue UP AND OUT THE TOP of the chimney. (there was some debate on here a couple years back and someone wanted to run the flue from a stove into the chimney and not up but a few feet. while taking a chimney and fireplace inspection classes over the past couple of years, i learned that the flue from the stove must go out of the top of the chimney. The city of new york does not address this in the codes but the NFPA issued a ruling in 1994 requiring that such flues go out the top of the chimney and many local jurisdictions rely on the NFPA for code. i will digress further; the NFPA feels that not running the flue up an out could leave an air leak into the chimney from inside the chimney space and this can allow for a loss in stack effect and perhaps not move enough air through the stove).
if you were going to use this fireplace, i would say a professional service would have to look at it but that might not be necessary. I seem to recall you calling or emailing me a year ago to look at a problem with the gutter; had you brought me over, i would have inspected the top of the house,front and rear (facias, gutters) and the roof and all flashings, masonry extending over the roof line and the chimneys in so far as they extend over the roof and i would very quickly tell you what you need. i generally charge $700 for this service, including some leak detection. If you reconsidered brining me over, you would be able to throw questions at me and if i do not know the answers, i would look you in the eye and tell you “i do not know” and I would get the answer as I prepare the report. this past couple of weeks has been a little slow, anyone reading this can get me out on a flat roof for $600 now (in brooklyn; so long as work is slower). (please note, i think you said your house is victorian gothic; that says to me it has standing or high slope roofs. I can only inspect low slope or flat roofs; i have to be able to walk on it to do a proper inspection).
I am not in a position to guide people in what to do to fix fireplaces and chimneys themselves as i do advise with roofs, but i am in a position to identify what is wrong. if you have a flat roof and bring me over, i will look at the condition of the brick in the smoke chamber as well.
Steve
brownstonehomeinspection.com
opoddubnaya.bootsoft | 6 days ago
No. House was build in 1850s.
Wall above the fireplace surround is lath and plaster, so, I assume that the wall is original at least back to pre sheetrock times.
cate | 6 days ago
Wow, this sounds already very cool and like it could be a great design feature with one of the Swedish style stoves you mention — corner configuration sounds ideal for this. Sounds like maybe your house already had one of those giant hooded mantels that were popular circa 1895-1905 or so?
opoddubnaya.bootsoft | 6 days ago
My chimney is huge. Firebox needs to be rebuild but even now I can crawl from the opening inside.
It is in the corner and the plan was to remove not only fireplace surround but also the wall above up to the ceiling, catch the liner and put all the pipes connecting the stove, then put fire protection box around and close the wall with fire resistant material and then tile.
In theory the small heat mass stove could be built in this area but we are not going for any risks and I do not believe in local expertise on building heatmass stoves.
Also, it is going to the area of changing configuration and may be we can loose grandfathering status, I do not know.
The safest option is to go with an approved and EPA certified ceramic stove that is safe, reline the chimney and improve fire protection inside the box.
We removed several bricks in the basement and looked up inside the chimney: you could hide people there. It gets somewhat more narrow all the way up in the attic, but still pretty large. It is not a brownstone sized chimney and house is victorian-gothic revival.
Easiest way would be to follow our plan but put some american small wood burning stove. But house is begging for something more formal. And we do not want non-efficient regular fireplace.
BTW, we found a box with some of the original tiles from the surround that somebody removed at some point molesting this fireplace. At least something survived.
BobMarvin | 6 days ago
I have known people who’ve had a gas fireplace rebuild to burn wood. It’s a big job involving enlarging the fire box and adding a smoke chamber to the chimney. It worked, but they were only able to light very small fires.
cate | 6 days ago
I don’t know about Swedish or European style stoves in New York City. But in the 1860s it was quite common for townhouses to have heating stoves in some rooms. Sometimes these stood separate from a shallow chimney with a mantel shelf; other times, the stoves were inserted into a regular size firebox. (And of course, late 19th century townhouses always had wood and coal burning cooking stoves in the kitchen fireplaces, which are much bigger than the fireplaces in other rooms.) You can see heating stoves like this in the dining room of the Merchant’s House Museum. They are sized to fit the opening of a firebox. Whatever you do, one thing to keep in mind is that the fireplaces and chimneys you have now were not necessarily designed to burn wood and they may not be big enough for wood fires. A chimney expert can evaluate and tell you what will be safe. (Many Brooklyn fireplaces were designed for gas or coal rather than wood.) Good luck!