Extension Width
Hi, I recently closed on a small, narrow, two-story frame house in South Slope and am working with an architect to design plans. There is an existing (original, I believe) extension in the rear which runs approximately 3/4 of the width of the lot. My thoughts were to expand this to the full width to maximize interior space, but the architect just sent me this note: “We cannot go full width on the extension because the building wall on the adjacent property at that side is set back from the property line approx 3′-6″ +/- and therefore zoning requires an eight foot distance between building walls when this condition is present. The building wall on the opposite property abuts the property line and therefore we may also abut the property line at that side. ” I’ve attached a quick sketch of the properties. The red box is what I was hoping to accomplish. I knew there may be limitations with the extension related to lot coverage, light requirements, etc., but this confuses me. Why would the neighbors choice of where their extension was built limit my ability to go to the property line? Does anyone have experience with this? Thanks
storm
in Zoning 10 years and 2 months ago
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11 replies
bobjbkln | 10 years and 2 months ago
Admittedly I am not an architect, nor have I seriously dealt with zoning issues in many years. But I think you a wrong here about the requirements to relate to the adjacent properties. For example, see Article II, Chapter 3, Section 23-462 (b). Also see, Article V, Chapter 4, Section 54-313 (b)(2) re: enlargements. I repeat that I am not a professional and there are surely so details that I am missing (hence the OP’s need for a well researched professional opinion). Still I think it important to note, that, unlike how I read your answer, the construction on the adjacent lot _does limit_ what this property owner can build.
a2chitect | 10 years and 2 months ago
Let’s be clear with one fact: As a property owner, you are not responsible for the existing non-compliance on your neighbor’s property. If this was the case, then most everyone in Brooklyn would be screwed and would never be able to do anything on their lot because of someone else’s illegal property. Also, many of the extensions in the South Slope (and in Brooklyn for that matter) were not built legally. I’ve run into this a number of times, and for each project we’ve had to prove, via Sanborn Maps, when the extensions were built. I believe there is a 33′ height limitation in R5B and that is measured from the average sidewalk elevation at the front of your property. You may be hard pressed to get a 3rd story in under that limitation. I think you will not be able to make it only deeper without addressing your existing non-compliance. Which is why I still believe you can build full to the side lot line. You need to get a 2nd opinion on this or a DOB determination.
bobjbkln | 10 years and 2 months ago
The reason you have some conflicting opinions is that the zoning resolution is a complicated document and information referring to what can be built in the district is in one place, information on non-complying buildings and enlargements in another. Yard requirements under both new and existing non-complying building are elsewhere. Moreover, R5B is a “contextual district” that has lots of special nuances including the relationships to adjacent buildings. Unless an architect has dealt with this exact case before in an R5B zone, any answer would probably require hours of work. No one here is capable of giving you an off the cuff accurate answer to your very specific situation. So you need either to trust your architect’s analysis or hire a zoning specialist (probably another architect) to get a second opinion.
storm | 10 years and 2 months ago
Wow, I really appreciate all of the replies. It seems as there are differing opinions even amongst those on this forum and the best answer may be to get a pre-determination from the DOB. Just need to explain to my architect without trying to undermine her. Assuming we keep the extension the same width, does anyone anticipate me running into trouble either by making it deeper (into the yard) or taller (adding the second story or maybe even a third)? Just to clarify, zoning is R5B. Again, thanks so much for the insight.
arch007 | 10 years and 2 months ago
In the R4 zones “there is no minimum width for a side yard but there must be at least eight feet between buildings on adjacent zoning lots” zoning regulations have nothing to do with fire ratings. (tho you could make a round about argument that is a reason for certain zoning) http://nyc-dob.com
a2chitect | 10 years and 2 months ago
I’m not sure I entirely agree with your architect’s interpretation here. I believe that you have the right to build full to the lot line so long as you provide a 2hr. rated construction separation. Your architect can submit a ZRD-1 to the DOB that will provide you with zoning determination if you need this question answered prior to proceeding any further. But like I said, it’s my opinion that you have the right to build full to the side lot line given that a side yard is not required as mentioned in another comment above.
bobjbkln | 10 years and 2 months ago
The architects on this board understand the current zoning/building code requirements better than I, but let me try to give you a rough idea of what I think the situation is (not know what zoning you are in and other relevant construction issues). First, I believe that your house could not be built today. 13.67′ feet width is a substandard lot and you cannot create such size lots today, or build upon them (as of right). Then apparently in your zone, side lots are not required if adjacent to an unbuilt lot or to a building that is built to the lotline. However, in your zone, if you (or your neighbor) has a side yard, the buildings must be at least 8′ apart. Again the fact that they are not is a grandfathered condition that cannot be recreated in new construction. There is now about 7′ between the buildings. That non complying condition is grandfathered, but you can’t make it more non complying than it currently is, hence you can’t build in your extension’s side yard.
Arkady | 10 years and 2 months ago
A neighbor of mine tried something similar a year ago. I don’t know which entity kiboshed it but he was told there was no hope of going the entire width of the building regardless of other strictures.
storm | 10 years and 2 months ago
Thank you both for the responses. The full lot width is 13.67′ and the existing extension is 10.23′ wide, leaving a 3.44′ “courtyard”. This appears to be consistent with the neighbor’s extension footprint as well. I believe both extensions were built with the original homes in the mid 1880’s. I forgot to mention in the original post that the original extension is only 1 story, and we will be re-building as a 2 story. Where does this leave us with options? I still am not sure I understand the 8′ restriction, especially because the two courtyards together do not even meet this 8′ requirement. I like the solution of both me and the neighbor removing the courtyard space, but that is not a viable option.