The Big Reveal at 360 Smith
The scaffolding has finally come down at 360 Smith and the blogger Pardon Me For Asking isn’t very happy about what she can see. She calls the building, which has been under construction since 2008, “uninspired,” “out of scale,” “out of context,” and for good measure: “Fugly.” Clearly the building dwarfs its neighbors but the…
The scaffolding has finally come down at 360 Smith and the blogger Pardon Me For Asking isn’t very happy about what she can see. She calls the building, which has been under construction since 2008, “uninspired,” “out of scale,” “out of context,” and for good measure: “Fugly.” Clearly the building dwarfs its neighbors but the overall look doesn’t seem to be worse than most other new buildings that have popped up around town in recent years.
360 Smith Getting Its Facade [Brownstoner]
360 Smith Tops Out [Brownstoner] GMAP
FSRQ- I think we’re arguing the same thing from different sides of the fence. You’re absolutely right, demographics change, and that’s where urban planners come in. With that in mind, If an area is zoned with certain restrictions, you’re ignoring the advice of the experts, the people who do look at things like census reports and housing trends. What’s the point of having experts to forecast and zone accordingly if you don’t then follow the zoning?
With regards to the sewer issue, I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I agree with you that it is a terrible system if it’s overtaxed. While it would be preferable that storm water be dumped into the canal rather than raw sewage, the ideal would be that both storm water and sewage gets treated which was the original idea behind the system. In theory if I have a steady load of X gallons per minute at peak of raw sewage and pipes sized to carry 2X, the system can handle any storm that equals X, but if my steady load of raw sewage goes up, that is going to decrease the amount of storm water that the system can carry. Obviously there are going to be times when the system overflows even if there is no new construction, but it’s not going to be as often and less product will be diverted if there’s less of a load on the system from construction.
Just for the record, I don’t have a real issue with the design of the building itself, I just don’t like the way the whole thing went down.
As far as I am concerned, buildings like 360 Smith are ruining the character of the brownstone neighborhood. The building is higher than people were originally told…. the gardens behind it no longer get sunlight… the building itself has no relationship to its location. It practically fills the entire space of the property. We know that no buildings were destroyed to construct it as it is on top of the subway station. The city could have required the construction be no higher than 3 stories up. This building lowers the value of the adjacent brownstones as well as the immediate area.
I suspect that someone’s pockets were well lined in order to get permission to build 360 Smith Street as it is.
That’s an interesting idea, but I think there’s a HUGE difference between a middling 6 or 7 story apartment building and a 76 story building hitting a district that already has overcrowding. And IIRC, the overcrowding there has caused them to not only rezone the old BPC/Tribeca school zones, but also open two new schools (one of them to be housed in the Beekman Tower, and the other at some new building in BPC).
I just don’t know if CG has hit that level of ovecrowding yet. I know that there were no out-of-zone kids for Kindergarten, but I don’t believe that was true for some of the upper grades. (Setting aside the dual language program).
Again Bond, the issue with the sewer overflow has nothing to do with new (or old) construction. It has to do with a system where storm drains flow into the sewer system (a bad setup). So if this building or NO buildings were built in the last 30 years, it wouldnt matter – when it rains, the sewer overflows (and in areas where alot of water goes into storm drains – like along a canal at the bottom of a huge SLOPE – more water enters the storm drain system)
As for the schools let me quote you “Ask any parent who wants to get their kid into 58 and isn’t zoned for it and see if they say about overcrowding.” – I think the key phrase is “isnt zoned for it”
One more thing about schools that people dont seem to realize is that many people stay in a district/area longer than their kids school eligible years; that is, people move in, their kids go to school and then graduate to other schools – but the parents dont leave. So just cause an area is “fully developed” doesnt mean a school is or isnt full empty or in-between. And in fact just because a school is full today doesnt mean in 3 years it wont be empty. Kids go to a school for 5-6 yrs tops – unless everyone who has kids moves after 5-6 yrs and is replaced by school eligible families, the school eligible population will likely decline overtime and that often leaves room for new construction. Short answer = new residential construction does not automatically lead to a need for new schools.
DH, that’s what I heard about that Gehry tower.
CGFan – isn’t that essentially what happened with the Gehry rental tower being built in the Financial District?
I like it. Thanks to a lot of community input and arm twisting, it could have been worse. I am pretty happy with the results. I can’t wait to see what they do with the subway entrance, and hope it opens soon!
I have seen a hell of a lot worse!
I like that idea CGFan. Doubt if it would ever happen, but I still like it. Then if the demographics of a neighborhood changes, it would be a simple matter to zone the address back, grandfathering in any children in the building that wanted to stay with the current zoning. I think it would have the added benefit of doing away with some of the pressure on developers to build in saturated areas, helping other neighborhoods in the process.
If the DOE really wanted to combat overcrowded schools in a reasonable and fair manner, it could zone new high rise buildings like this one for alternate schools BEFORE apartments are put on the market. If this building were zoned for PS 32 instead of PS 58, that influx of affluent children could help improve that school. Buyers of these apartments wouldn’t suffer, because the new zoned school was something taken into account before buying the apartment (and factored into the purchase price). The only one who would suffer would be the developer, as the apartments might be worth less than they had hoped with the new school zone.
gkw, no zoned kids who register on time have ever been turned away from PS 58 and it’s doubtful that would happen in the next year or two (if ever). Class size is definitely increasing in the lower grades, but there’s not yet the overcrowding problem that is present at some other schools. That could change in the future, but it’s more likely some of the pre-k classes would disappear before zoned kids are excluded.