Do Generalizations About Harlem Hold for Brooklyn Nabes?
It was hard to read this weekend’s NY Times story about the changing demographics in Harlem without considering the extent to which the article applied to some of the predominantly black neighborhoods in Brooklyn that have been attracting waves of white newcomers in recent years: In the past few years, the Village of Harlem, as…
It was hard to read this weekend’s NY Times story about the changing demographics in Harlem without considering the extent to which the article applied to some of the predominantly black neighborhoods in Brooklyn that have been attracting waves of white newcomers in recent years:
In the past few years, the Village of Harlem, as older residents still call it, has become a 21st-century laboratory for integration. Class and money and race are at the center of the changes in the neighborhood. Lured by stately century-old brownstones and relatively modest rents, new faces are moving in and making older residents feel that they are being pushed out. There have been protests, and anger directed as much at the idea of the newcomers as at them personally.
While this particular story focused on what it felt like for the white, middle-class arrivistes trying to make a home in a place that has been predominantly black for decades, it also touched on an aspect of gentrification that often gets overlooked— Middle-class black gentrification— as well as differing attitudes depending on generation. Older blacks didn’t have any choice but to live in a black neighborhood, said Mark Thomas, a 29-year-old African American man who recently moved from Atlanta to Strivers’ Row. So they get nervous when a white person wants to move in. But if you talk to young African-Americans, they want the neighborhood they live in to be integrated. Do you think that’s a fair generalization to make about neighborhoods like Clinton Hill and Bed Stuy?
In an Evolving Harlem, Newcomers Try to Fit In [NY Times]
Photo by rfullerrd
dittoburg
what does this post have to do with other post?
i’m responding only to this post.
“what suburbs have multi-million-dollar condos?”
You are correct most suburbs have homes not condos. But the market is the same at that price point.
“are you really asserting that those neighborhoods are by some measure worse today than they used to be? if so, how?”
I’m not asserting anything. My point is that when the W. Village is filled with Marc Jacobs and Stella McCartney type stores then the place loses some of it’s uniqueness.
Some of those streets have a similar feel to West Coast Plaza in Orange county.
I have a friend that’s being forced out of her apartment in the W. Village. And I’m sure the condos in those buildings won’t have the economic make-up of the former residents.
“I have friends that live in the W. Village and LES who complain about the suburbanization of their neighborhoods. Long time residents forced out to make room for multi million dollar condos.”
what suburbs have multi-million-dollar condos?
“What made the Harlem, LES and West Village special was the people that lived there. Once those people are forced out and big chains move in, what makes those neighborhoods unique? Absolutely nothing and that is what makes people upset.”
are you really asserting that those neighborhoods are by some measure worse today than they used to be? if so, how?
I too have had a very positive experience in Clinton Hill, getting to know my neighbors and raising a daughter who doesn’t make racial distinctions.
The economic disparities here are glaring at times however. And we shouldn’t pretend that issues of rising rents, police brutality, and crime don’t carry with them racial overtones that make it difficult to assess the success of integration. I think given the fact that gentrification in Brooklyn always brings about its share of socioeconomic tension, Clinton Hill still manages to feel welcoming and tolerant.
armchair – so you’ve failed to read the numerous posts on this board before pointing out that diversity isn’t mixing a bunch of african americans, anglo americans and puerto ricans.
This issue is so complicated. But for one second let’s take race out of the equation. I have friends that live in the W. Village and LES who complain about the suburbanization of their neighborhoods. Long time residents forced out to make room for multi million dollar condos.
Neighborhoods throughout New York are losing their identity. It would be very easy to make this racial but it goes beyond race. What made the Harlem, LES and West Village special was the people that lived there. Once those people are forced out and big chains move in, what makes those neighborhoods unique? Absolutely nothing and that is what makes people upset.
when white people talk about “diversity” its only black and white diversity, not cultural etc…
When I was looking in Bed Stuy a realtor commented that “while Harlem went through this process kicking and screaming it has largely been home-grown here in Bed Stuy.”
Indeed, a few weeks ago I made the comment that I am the only new buyer on my side of the street and all the other houses, which are owned by long-time residents, have already restored their facades themselves. I have not gotten around to it yet and risk getting a bad report card!!!
i am sure you could ask ten people in Clinton Hill and get 10 different answers but Clinton Hill is the most successfully integrated neighborhood that I have lived in at least. I know many more younger african americans than older ones (as I am on the kid circuit at the moment) but I am always heartened and enlivened by the mix of people that I know in my neighborhood and I cherish the diversity that my daughter is experiencing. I can already tell that she doesn’t look at racial identity at all, which is pretty amazing. But again this is the young family circuit. I am sure there are plenty of people who don’t appreciate the changes in the neighborhood and the increasing rent prices. We touched on this in the Flea Market vs the church (or vice versa) thread. There are plenty of reasons why people who have been the custodians of a neighborhood for many years could feel resentful of newcomers, and yet this is also part of the undeniable cycles of urban renewal.